Author Topic: If Women do Porn out of Desperation?  (Read 514 times)

Robert1

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If Women do Porn out of Desperation?
« on: March 20, 2017, 06:26:25 PM »
What do men do? If women are turning to porn to survive even when women are more likely to graduate college, more likely to be hired and even out-earning men in some professions, what happens to the men who don't have this option?
I have always sort of sympathized more with women, call it paternal instinct if you like, and whenever I see a woman that even looks like she might not be enjoying what she is doing, my instinct is to jump to her aid.

I was having a conversation with my wife about this recently, discussing why I want to stop watching porn, and she told me that from her point of view there are actually more men in desperate situations with little sympathy and even less support. She really just wants my me to be able to get hard again, and thinks my moral objections to porn are silly, I still disagree with her and feel that porn is morally wrong, but she does kind of have a point.

It hadn't occurred to me that while sex work may be degrading and dangerous, it is at least a high paying option that a woman can turn to, and that's only if she doesn't qualify for welfare programs of which there are more available to women. What would a man do in a similar position? Even if a man does turn to porn he's going to be making a lot less. Perhaps the percentage of homeless men vs homeless women tells part of the story?

I'm still sympathetic to women, and I don't think anyone should be forced to work in porn out of desperation, but I'm starting to realize that I had never even taken the time to extend the same sympathy to men. I feel as though we have this tendency as men to look out for women first, throughout history good men have always put women first. While I think women certainly do care (my wife is a shining example), it sometimes seems like she is in the minority, most women seem to be focused more on women's issues, which makes sense to some degree, but not when it is at the expense of mens rights and freedoms.

So I guess I've sort of had my eyes opened a bit, it seems as though women are doing better and better these days, but men are getting left behind. If we prioritize support for women over support for men, is that really fighting for equality?
My wife encouraged me to put these thoughts out there, to encourage other men to perhaps do some thinking on whether we might be sacrificing to much of our own rights and freedoms and putting woman on a pedestal.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2017, 10:42:53 PM by Robert1 »

AppleJack

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Re: If Women do Porn out of Desperation?
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2017, 09:57:37 PM »
High paying? lol ok


Robert1

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Re: If Women do Porn out of Desperation?
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2017, 10:37:54 PM »
High paying? lol ok

That's what you are choosing to focus on here? Yes, sex work is a pretty high paying gig hourly, at least based on the degree of education required and the amount of work involved. It's an unpleasant and sometimes dangerous career, but then again so are hard labor trades that men tend to gravitate toward. The only difference is men make about 80% less per hour for that risk to personal safety.
Do you have any thoughts on the topic though? I don't know, maybe my wife is crazy, but I won't be telling her that ;)
She's heavily into various feminist and men's rights groups which makes for interesting conversation, since these groups are often unnecessarily at each others throats :P
« Last Edit: March 20, 2017, 10:50:12 PM by Robert1 »

aquarius25

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Re: If Women do Porn out of Desperation?
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2017, 10:42:23 PM »
I do see that men are objectified, treated poorly, trafficed, and receive a lot of the same things that women do. I would go further to say that it can be even harder for men to come out and publicly admit that they have been abused. I have read many accounts of men who have been raped and how hard it is come come forward. I think you make some really great points! I think rather than woman's right or men's rights it should just be people's rights. Humans all deserve rights. 

Robert1

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Re: If Women do Porn out of Desperation?
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2017, 10:56:47 PM »
I do see that men are objectified, treated poorly, trafficed, and receive a lot of the same things that women do. I would go further to say that it can be even harder for men to come out and publicly admit that they have been abused. I have read many accounts of men who have been raped and how hard it is come come forward. I think you make some really great points! I think rather than woman's right or men's rights it should just be people's rights. Humans all deserve rights.

Yeah I totally agree, it's really surprising how common male abuse is but it's even more surprising how little there is for support. I mean I get that it's best to keep shelters separated by gender, but I'm not even sure men's shelters exist. I think we play a big role in this as men, sort of a form of self sabotage. Most men will do anything to ensure safety for women but we seem to be rather nonchalant with our own. It also seems like mainstream feminism is getting a little out of hand with the disrespect towards men, and some men's rights groups are offering an equally childish backlash.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2017, 11:04:39 PM by Robert1 »

AppleJack

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Re: If Women do Porn out of Desperation?
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2017, 11:12:25 PM »
My apologies I thought your post was satire. There are plenty of men in porn, seems selling your body for cash is something anyone can do not just women, same with their being male escorts etc. Of course it's more often than not men who are buying so guess as a man you would need to be ok with selling yourself to another man, but hey whatever, it might be degrading and dangerous but it's high paying right, and much more so than working in the trades so seems like a winning opportunity for most men too.

I guess more important questions to me would be why is society structured in such a way that anybody ends up in a desperate enough position to sell their body for money in the first place (male, female or transgender) and why are men so willing to pay for sex in the first place?

Hanai

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Re: If Women do Porn out of Desperation?
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2017, 11:24:50 PM »
Personally, I'm more concerned with the kids who are having their childhood cut short and lives are being or will be ruined because of porn rather than the pornstars (male or female) who are cashing checks because of it. Seems that no one cares that kids are being exposed to incest, anal sex, transexuals, beastiality, bdsm, etc, before they've even entered their teenage years.

Robert1

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Re: If Women do Porn out of Desperation?
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2017, 11:43:02 PM »
My apologies I thought your post was satire. There are plenty of men in porn, seems selling your body for cash is something anyone can do not just women, same with their being male escorts etc. Of course it's more often than not men who are buying so guess as a man you would need to be ok with selling yourself to another man, but hey whatever, it might be degrading and dangerous but it's high paying right, and much more so than working in the trades so seems like a winning opportunity for most men too.

I guess more important questions to me would be why is society structured in such a way that anybody ends up in a desperate enough position to sell their body for money in the first place (male, female or transgender) and why are men so willing to pay for sex in the first place?

Yeah, I can understand that, I guess that just goes to show how seriously men's issues are taken :P
Lots of men in porn, they are just paid a lot less.
There are gay escorts for sure, but anal sex is quite a bit more risky for stds, it's about as niche a market as women in hard labor trades, and they make less money from what I hear. Lol the other side of the gender wage gap, what the feminists don't want you to know ;)

I think society is better than it has ever been before, though it's a little lopsided. We can certainly do a lot better, but there are more social safety nets than ever before. The thing is though, men seem to have a lot further to fall, something I hadn't really put much thought into up until now.
For the most part people have plenty of options when they really hit rock bottom, there's basic min wage gigs and welfare programs, but some people see a chance at doing a lot better for themselves financially, even without education, I can't really blame them for wanting a better life.
I don't think it is realistic to think we can all be making 200$/hour working unskilled jobs that are also safe and not degrading, skilled labor will always be valued more.

I guess male sexuality in general has a heavier focus on physical intimacy rather than emotional, I don't really see anything wrong with the concept of paying for physical intimacy, isn't that what husbands do in a marriage (just kidding :)) ). I wouldn't do it myself as I love my wife and made her a promise I intend to keep until my deathbed. There is certainly a lot of exploitation/trafficking in the sex trade so I am definitely in favor of preventing that. My line of thinking is that prostitution is going to happen anyway, so we'd probably be better off legalizing and regulating. New Zealand seems to be leading the charge.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2017, 12:10:48 AM by Robert1 »

Robert1

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Re: If Women do Porn out of Desperation?
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2017, 11:47:01 PM »
Personally, I'm more concerned with the kids who are having their childhood cut short and lives are being or will be ruined because of porn rather than the pornstars (male or female) who are cashing checks because of it. Seems that no one cares that kids are being exposed to incest, anal sex, transexuals, beastiality, bdsm, etc, before they've even entered their teenage years.

True enough mate, why not get a thread started on the topic? I've been berated for derailing threads in the past, so I'm playing it cautious these days. Hope you understand ;)
I'd certainly have some input for the topic, my son is coming up on 13 years, and I've decided that disclosure is the best way. There seems to be a real lack of education on the topic.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2017, 12:12:46 AM by Robert1 »

metal22

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Re: If Women do Porn out of Desperation?
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2017, 12:11:12 AM »
I'm not sure where you are getting your statistics on women in college and earning,  but I would say the sex industry is not really a gender issue,  but a humanitarian issue.
Both men and women,  and even children are being used in the human trafficking.  I personally feel we should do less hand wringing and more action.  Stopping usage is the first step.  I used porn for many years,  and although I hadn't ever sought it out I can guarantee just by the law of averages that I have watched stuff that had victims of trafficking in it.  I have participated in that depraved industry of human slavery.  Every time I think about it I get upset.
One thing I am doing is I'm donating to organizations that help victims of trafficking.  Considering what I've done,  its the very least I can do.  In fact this friday I will be donating a piece of my artwork to a friend that works directly with her business to help victims trying to re-establish their lives.

Robert1

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Re: If Women do Porn out of Desperation?
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2017, 12:18:23 AM »
I'm not sure where you are getting your statistics on women in college and earning,  but I would say the sex industry is not really a gender issue,  but a humanitarian issue.
Both men and women,  and even children are being used in the human trafficking.  I personally feel we should do less hand wringing and more action.  Stopping usage is the first step.  I used porn for many years,  and although I hadn't ever sought it out I can guarantee just by the law of averages that I have watched stuff that had victims of trafficking in it.  I have participated in that depraved industry of human slavery.  Every time I think about it I get upset.
One thing I am doing is I'm donating to organizations that help victims of trafficking.  Considering what I've done,  its the very least I can do.  In fact this friday I will be donating a piece of my artwork to a friend that works directly with her business to help victims trying to re-establish their lives.

You callin' my wife a lier :D In all seriousness I'm just getting the info from her and I wouldn't know where to look. Perhaps I shouldn't state it so "matter of factly" and I'd welcome any counter evidence you have.
I wanted to be very careful to steer clear of turning this discussion towards trafficking. I understand that it is a serious issue but I want be very clear that I am talking about willing entry into the sex industry. I'd certainly be interested in discussing further in a dedicated thread on the topic though, would be interested to hear your thoughts.

You do bring up an interesting point though. My wife and I recently went looking for a charity to donate to in support of victims of human trafficking, and we had a lot of trouble weeding out the ones that either A) Focused expressly on trafficked women and girls, and/or B) Were providing a sort of welfare program for women who willingly entered the sex trade (perhaps due to circumstance) and were looking to leave. In regards to A) Many victims of trafficking are boys, although they are often filtered into different industries rather than the sex trade. My way of looking at B) is that welfare programs should be gender neutral and geared expressly towards helping those that are in dire need of it.
So I guess that is on topic in a way, but I have to disagree with you about trafficking not being a gender issue. It's also very important that we distinguish between the sex trade and human trafficking. Not everyone in the sex trade is trafficked, and not all trafficked individuals are working in the sex trade.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2017, 12:28:48 AM by Robert1 »

aquarius25

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Re: If Women do Porn out of Desperation?
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2017, 12:33:26 AM »
I guess I would also like to point out that not all women in porn are paid well. Just because there are a few that are paid well that doesn't mean the majority are. There are a lot of women and men that end up there by survival and circumstance but it doesn't get them a better life and it isn't the big money maker they were hoping for.

Hanai

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Re: If Women do Porn out of Desperation?
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2017, 01:04:29 AM »
I'd certainly have some input for the topic, my son is coming up on 13 years, and I've decided that disclosure is the best way. There seems to be a real lack of education on the topic.

Yes, research on the neurology of porn use is being published in some of the best medical journals in the world and it's being blatantly ignored by the media. The wikipedia pages on pornography addiction and the effects of pornography had absolutely nothing regarding neurology until I added some of the systematic reviews to them a half a year ago.

I would suggest the same things that I suggest to all parents - in addition to educating your son about the potential effects of porn and internet on the brain you should take a few simple precautions:
On laptop's/computers that he has access to there should be installed:
K9 Web protection (blocks porn, malware, etc.) http://www1.k9webprotection.com
Avast Safezone browser - blocks ads and viruses (either of which can contain sexual content) https://www.avast.com/f-safezone
Manictime (or similar software) - keeps logs of computer use, very handy http://www.manictime.com/

I installed these all for myself during my recovery and it works very well for avoiding accidental exposure to explicit content (not to mention making using the computer less annoying).

In addition you might consider not giving him any mobile devices with internet connection (if he doesn't have them already). Kids shouldn't need them.

Robert1

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Re: If Women do Porn out of Desperation?
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2017, 12:31:40 PM »
I guess I would also like to point out that not all women in porn are paid well. Just because there are a few that are paid well that doesn't mean the majority are. There are a lot of women and men that end up there by survival and circumstance but it doesn't get them a better life and it isn't the big money maker they were hoping for.

I guess it depends how you're looking at it? The hourly pay is a pretty good step up from the average wage, but certainly careers can be short and quite a few get into the costly (in many ways) drug scene.
In that sense it actually doesn't differ to much from hard labor work. I have a few friends who have worked their entire lives in various labor trades and all of them have one thing in common, heavy use of alcohol and they smoke a lot as well. When your job sucks there is certainly a greater chance of turning to drugs or alcohol, whether it is humiliating or backbreaking work.
Is that what you mean?

Robert1

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Re: If Women do Porn out of Desperation?
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2017, 12:39:49 PM »
I'd certainly have some input for the topic, my son is coming up on 13 years, and I've decided that disclosure is the best way. There seems to be a real lack of education on the topic.

Yes, research on the neurology of porn use is being published in some of the best medical journals in the world and it's being blatantly ignored by the media. The wikipedia pages on pornography addiction and the effects of pornography had absolutely nothing regarding neurology until I added some of the systematic reviews to them a half a year ago.

I would suggest the same things that I suggest to all parents - in addition to educating your son about the potential effects of porn and internet on the brain you should take a few simple precautions:
On laptop's/computers that he has access to there should be installed:
K9 Web protection (blocks porn, malware, etc.) http://www1.k9webprotection.com
Avast Safezone browser - blocks ads and viruses (either of which can contain sexual content) https://www.avast.com/f-safezone
Manictime (or similar software) - keeps logs of computer use, very handy http://www.manictime.com/

I installed these all for myself during my recovery and it works very well for avoiding accidental exposure to explicit content (not to mention making using the computer less annoying).

In addition you might consider not giving him any mobile devices with internet connection (if he doesn't have them already). Kids shouldn't need them.

Thanks mate, I already had K9 and I'll look into the other 2. No data on the cell, it's prohibitively expensive any ways. I think the other aspect to this is teaching him how to be confident around women, there seems to be a lot of younger porn addicts who just didn't have that education and they retreated to porn as a sort of coping mechanism.

It's important to teach boys to respect women, but some people seem to think that respecting women has to come at the cost of confidence/self respect. You can be confident and respectful at the same time.