24-y.o. Virgin Seeking PIED Advice

Hey everyone,

I'll try to keep this as brief as possible, but I still want to be thorough enough to the point where I can give enough info to yield accurate and worthwhile advice.  Here goes:  I'm a perfectly healthy (in fact, VERY healthy) 24-year-old male and have yet to have sex, which, as of yesterday, I am realizing may be due to PIED.  Here is a brief rundown of my attempts at sex and sexual timeline:

Note:  Throughout this timeline, I consistently watched and masturbated to porn probably 4-6/7 times per week.  I would never masturbate more than once per day and only spent about 15-30 minutes per session, so this wasn't an all-encompassing thing I'd plan my day around.  My taste started with lesbian sex, but over the past year, I have masturbated almost exclusively to anal videos (especially amateur ones).  I've never got into particularly devious or taboo stuff, so I feel like I shouldn't have been too desensitized to "vanilla," regular sex (clearly, though, I may be wrong about that).

15 yo- Ability to orgasm achieved.  This achievement came (no pun intended) as I was masturbating to porn.
18 yo - First attempt at sex.  I really liked the girl I tried having sex with, but had never even kissed a girl or done anything sexual before the first night we tried to have sex.  I didn't even expect sex that night, she just kind of initiated it and until yesterday I had always assumed that nerves and the surprise of the moment caused me to fail at this juncture, but I'm realizing now that desensitization via porn-watching may have been the real culprit, or at least a more prominent factor than the nerves.  After several failed attempts at sex with this girl over the next couple months, she eventually left me and I felt horrible about myself.
20 yo - Girl #2.  Still really liked this one and knew her from school, but the circumstances here were a little bit different, as I was drunk on our first (and only) attempt at having sex.  Once again, I couldn't achieve an erection, and she was no longer interested in sex after that first encounter.
22 yo - Girl #3.  Random hook-up attempt.  I figured maybe this time would be different, as I had no emotional attachment and wasn't drunk, but same woeful story as before.
23 yo - I was talking about my sexual issues with one of my friends, and she mentioned how she never masturbates to porn, but rather to thoughts of her past sexual encounters or fantasies about guys in her life.  To this point, I had been masturbating exclusively to porn videos and images, rather than to the fantasy of myself actually having sex with another human being.  Over the past 6 months or so following this conversation, I'd say my masturbation sessions have fluctuated between porn-induced orgasms and those achieved through fantasies about having sex with prospective girls I know in real life, but I have not made the effort (out of ignorance of the issue, not lack of commitment/will power) to cut out porn completely.  Going forward, though, I will attempt to cut porn out completely.
24 yo - Girl #4.  Two nights ago, I attempted to have sex unsuccessfully with yet another girl who I am currently courting and hoping to date.  She was very understanding and even bought my "it's just nerves, I really like you" rationale/excuse for my poor performance, but I am REALLY hoping to avoid a repeat of past experiences with her.

A common theme with these sexual encounters is that I could get an erection (maybe not a full-on rager, but still decently hard) during clothed foreplay, but by the time it came down to getting in my boxers or fully naked, I got a semi at best.  I'm perfectly well-endowed and feel great about my body/looks so I don't believe that that factors into my inability to get hard once things start to progress toward the actual act of sex, rather than just foreplay. 
If anyone who has had similar issues could help me out with this, it would be enlightening and helpful beyond belief.  Just a few questions I hope someone out there can answer for me as I hope to rid myself of PIED:

- Should I stop masturbating entirely, or just to porn?  Are fantasies about this real-life girl I'm currently courting okay, or would masturbating to these thoughts stall my progress?
- Can my ability to get hard only during clothed foreplay be attributed to worrying over "blowing it" like I did during my first sexual experience or is it still likely a porn-based issue?
- Would ED drugs like Cialis or Viagra help?  I have done minimal research this far (again, I only considered porn as the potential issue as of last night), but it seems that certain blood vessels restrict unless triggered by porn images/videos, rather than them being stimulated by actual human enticement.  I just want to know if Cialis could help from a biological/physiological standpoint.
- Should I attempt to have sex with this current girl again before I feel fully cured or would that be ruinous, as well?

Okay, so this was much longer than I expected to go on for, but just typing that I feel may have been a landmark moment in my life.  I feel that I have finally identified the main issue and anyone who has had similar issues or just words of wisdom to pass along, it would be more helpful and appreciated than you could ever imagine.  Thanks in advance to anyone who gives me some feedback!

- Dan

You need to reboot then rewire.  If you don't know what these terms mean, go on yourbrainonporn.com and read up.

You are addicted to images on a screen.  You have trained your brain to crave those images instead of real girls.  Your brain no longer looks at a girl and thinks "grab this girl and have sex with her in order to reproduce"... Your brain is so used to this super stimulus of having novel girls at the tip of your finger whenever you want.

Here is what I would do if I was in your situation.

Give up porn (no brainer).  That means 100% stop watching.
I would give up all forms of sexual release for a little while (No masturbation or sex, no orgasms at all for a little while) 
Allow your body to recover and become normal again. 
Fantasies are NOT real people, even if they are about real people.  You need to rewire to a real person, don't use fantasy, don't watch porn.  Once you recover and can have sex normally, then masturbating to fantasy of a real woman in you life once in a while might be OK.  But don't do this until you have recovered.
You are 24 years old.  Do not touch ED drugs.  your type of ED is in your head anyways, there's no problem with your body blood flow, the problem is is that your brain is not sending those electrical pulses to your dick saying "get hard".  You need a REBOOT not ED DRUGS.

Tell your current girl what is going on.  Tell her you think you have this issue and then read about it with her, or watch some of the videos with her.  Get her to understand your situation and then I'm sure she'll help you.  It can be a bonding experience and it will make you two closer.

Hey man, thank you for the feedback!  I really appreciate it.  Just a couple follow-up questions:

- When you say to give up sexual release for a little while, are we talking a couple weeks, a couple months, 3+ months?  Also, when I get back into it, obviously I'm going to stay away from porn, but is fantasizing about my current girl okay, or should I just try to achieve an erection/orgasm via touch and not really be thinking of anything while I do so?
- Do you surmise that my issue relating to getting progressively softer/limper as I get less clothed is a porn-related issue, too?  I keep wanting to chalk some of that up to a confidence thing and worrying about blowing it again, but honestly that wasn't my mindset the other night when I tried to have sex.  So I may have answered my own question, but if you could touch on that, that'd be awesome.
- Should I wait to masturbate again until after I've successfully had sex or should the masturbation come first?

Thanks again, though, for the feedback you've given so far.  I'd love to hear what you have to say about those other issues listed above!

Not everyone stays away from sexual release during their reboot, but I truly feel it's best to stay away from all forms of sexual release at least for a little while.  I don't want to give a specific amount of time because it's different for everyone.  But I will tell you that I didn't orgasm for 3 months.  It really sucked and it was hard at some times, but I am confident this helped to speed up the process.  I don't masturbate anymore and I no longer watch porn.  My only form of sexual release is through my girlfriend and I love it.  I crave her and I attack her, it's great and she loves it too! 

Try and see how long you can go without orgasming.  If you shoot for a number of days and don't make it, that's just added pressure and it'll just make you feel like you failed, for no reason!  Just try to go as long as you can, if you can make it to 3 months great!  If you can only go 2 weeks, then try to beat that and go 3 weeks!  Just always stay away from fantasy and porn while you're recovering. 

Once you can get to orgasm with a 100% erect penis and no fantasy is when you know you're in good shape. 

Yes I believe porn is your issue, eliminate it.  I used to go through the same thing, some of it is anxiety, but that anxiety came because  of the porn addiction and the PIED.  Once you are cured from this addiction you will be able to maintain your erections.

I would avoid masturbation, at least for now.  Some people think it's OK to masturbate, I disagree.  I think it makes the process take longer, so why do it? 

Once again, these are all my views.  What i did worked for me.  I don't believe there to be 1 cookie cutter solution though.

Feel free to keep asking me questions as I like to help.

Alright, so I'm going to cut porn and non-porn masturbation out completely.  Is there any way to tell that I have healed once I have?  Or is trying out sex and having the ability to get and maintain an erection the true test?

Also, you said, "Once you can get to orgasm with a 100% erect penis and no fantasy is when you know you're in good shape."  In this case, does "fantasy" include any sexual thoughts that aren't happening in-person.  For example, if I were to fantasize about my potential girlfriend and having sex with her, would that be considered a fantasy?  Or do you merely mean pixels, literature, etc. when you refer to fantasies. 

Finally, just to clarify, I know you said you had the same anxiety-PIED relationship issue prior to being cured, but were you also able to get an erection during foreplay pre-healing?  I am able to do so and feel like that ability has gotten stronger over the years with each subsequent sex attempt.  I realize, though, that erectile strength during foreplay is a moot issue if I can't capitalize on it and fully achieve an erection during crunch time.  Just wondering your experience with that and whether you think my ability to get an erection (albeit not a fully and consistently hard one) during foreplay, but not for actual sex, has any PIED ties.

Thanks again, man, I really do appreciate the info.

please remember that viagra was created for 60+ years old people. Never use viagra before being 60.
You are 24, your difficulties are porn induced and the solution won't come from pills.

viagra is rather a new addiction than a solution... same for cialis

danb91 said:

Alright, so I'm going to cut porn and non-porn masturbation out completely.  Is there any way to tell that I have healed once I have?  Or is trying out sex and having the ability to get and maintain an erection the true test?

Also, you said, "Once you can get to orgasm with a 100% erect penis and no fantasy is when you know you're in good shape."  In this case, does "fantasy" include any sexual thoughts that aren't happening in-person.  For example, if I were to fantasize about my potential girlfriend and having sex with her, would that be considered a fantasy?  Or do you merely mean pixels, literature, etc. when you refer to fantasies. 

Finally, just to clarify, I know you said you had the same anxiety-PIED relationship issue prior to being cured, but were you also able to get an erection during foreplay pre-healing?  I am able to do so and feel like that ability has gotten stronger over the years with each subsequent sex attempt.  I realize, though, that erectile strength during foreplay is a moot issue if I can't capitalize on it and fully achieve an erection during crunch time.  Just wondering your experience with that and whether you think my ability to get an erection (albeit not a fully and consistently hard one) during foreplay, but not for actual sex, has any PIED ties.

Thanks again, man, I really do appreciate the info.

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Good questions,

you should be able to masturbate with no thought process occurring at all.  Just the feeling of your hands on your penis should be enough to get you hard, maintain erection, and orgasm.  YOu should not need to grip your dick too hard, and you should not have to stroke too fast.  Once you are good to go, you should be able to gently touch your penis slowly with no thinking at all, and it will feel amazing.

Fantasy = porn replacement.  It's not a real girl, anything thats not REAL you should stay away from.  even if you are thinking about your potential girlfriend, it's not actually your potential girlfriend.  I'm not saying it has to be like this forever, jsut during the reboot.  I have a new girlfriend, and when I do masturbate (which is only maybe once a month MAX, I will think of her and things I've done to her, or things I want to do to her that we spoke about earlier in the day).  But do not do this now until you've rebooted!

My erections were on and off, sex was very hit or miss.  The best decision I made was to STOP having sex.  I told my girl what was going on, and I told her sex needed to stop.  I said I could continue to pleasure her though, oral, fingering etc.  She liked that

Foreplay is SO IMPORTANT.  IT's more important than sex.  Don't discount foreplay at all.  It's the FUNNEST PART OF SEX.  It's the most intimate part of sex.  There's flirting involved, cuddling, touching, grinding, kissing, smiling.  It's amazing.  And if you do it properly, you should be ROCK HARD by the end of it.  Teasing and anticipation is the best part.

I think it certainly does have PIED ties as it happened to me

no worries man, keep asking questions and I'd be happy to help as best I can!!

@kopp, Thanks for the perspective on that.  I honestly was really skeptical about the idea of Cialis/Viagra in the first place, so I don't think I would've gone that route, but I appreciate the reassurance.

@Pr3c1se, Thanks again for the continued support/feedback.  So a couple other questions.

- I've been studying up and watching other videos (from Gabe mostly) and he advises people in my situation, as you did, to stay away from sexual images and other non-real provocations that may cause stimulation.  He went so far as to preview movies and see if they had sex scenes in them before potentially attending one with such a scene accidentally.  He also avoided Facebook and the internet, etc. for awhile in order to fully rid himself of any non-real sexual temptation.  I always considered my porn-watching/masturbating to be pretty mundane and I used online videos as basically my only means of pornography (never jerked off to sex scenes in movies, girls' Facebook pictures, etc.).  So I feel like I have to just avoid online porn videos, but feel free to tell me if this is incorrect based on your experience.
- It is early in the process and I don't have ESP or anything, but I feel confident that I will be able to avoid masturbation for an extended period of time.  However, I find myself still getting an erection (albeit not a fully erect/long-lasting one) while texting or thinking about the girl I'm seeing.  Is this a problem?  Again, I am confident in my will power to not masturbate (porn-influenced or not) for awhile, but abstaining from any sexual thoughts about this real-life girl that yield an erection is something I feel would be tremendously difficult to do.  Is it okay to get these erections from time to time, as long as I don't act on them (i.e. masturbate)?

Once again, excellent questions.

Gabe, as well as others, say to avoid these types of media (Facebook and sexual scenes), not because you might be tempted to masturbate to them, but because they are called "triggers".  They cause your brain to "think" about porn, then people tend to go over to their favorite porn site and PMO.  So it's not the sex scenes themselves or the instagram or Facebook.  It's the fact these things are TRIGGERS that lead your brain to sexual thoughts.  Once you understand this, you will understand why Gabe says to avoid these things.  I did not avoid these things, as they were not triggers for me.  But it certainly would be safer to just avoid them if you need to.  Hope this makes sense!

Nope, if you're texting/sexting you girl and it's making you hard.  Then great!  Thats an actual girl, with real reactions you're texting!  Once again, if you stop texting her and go into your fantasy world, then it turns into a bad thing! 

The golden rule is this.  ONLY DEAL WITH REAL WOMEN.  No fantasy, no porn.  If the person you are kissing is real, then GO NUTS.  If its an imagination, then STOP!  (thinking about someone real, but not actually toughing her, is NOT REAL!)

Pr3c1se said:

  You need a REBOOT not ED DRUGS.

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Hi Pr3c1se,

I feel very related to danb91. I know the target of my reboot is quite far away still, but let's assume that I will go through this and complete the NoPOM Reboot, there is still no guarantee that I will have a normal erection when being with a girl. It could be that I am "healed", but still really really nervous of putting a condome on and finding inside my partner, if you know what I mean. That adrenaline will still kill the boner. Is it wrong to use a pill for the first or second time just to get over this edge?

Cheerio,

first.

Yes it is wrong. The good news is that you wont need it at all.

"I can't get hard because of the condom" is an excuse form men who dont assume their ED.
If your cock can be hard, it will be hard with a condom on it - hell it will be hard even if you put the whole box of condoms at once.

Get a shot of vodka instead.

Yeah that might be the case kopp. The problem is that I never had "really" successful sex so far, so I can't tell if I am cured unless a woman is in front of me and I'm getting a boner AND keeping it until I cum. I think it's just the fear of the first time sex after the reboot which will drive me to take pills. But I don't know cause I still have a long way to go there.

Pr3c1se said:

Nope, if you're texting/sexting you girl and it's making you hard.  Then great!  Thats an actual girl, with real reactions you're texting!  Once again, if you stop texting her and go into your fantasy world, then it turns into a bad thing! 

The golden rule is this.  ONLY DEAL WITH REAL WOMEN.  No fantasy, no porn.  If the person you are kissing is real, then GO NUTS.  If its an imagination, then STOP!  (thinking about someone real, but not actually toughing her, is NOT REAL!)

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Alright, so for example, today I was Snapchatting with my girl (casual, lightly flirty in nature, nothing explicit and it was a sex-absent conversation), and in a couple of the snaps her cleavage was showing a bit.  This turned me on a little bit, but I didn't get a full-fledged erection and obviously didn't jerk off, as we were Snapchatting in public.  I'm trying to fully grasp the real vs. not-real concept, so if I'm being redundant I apologize.  That said, I assume you'd advise against me thinking of that image later, right?  Not that I'd masturbate to it, because, again, I'm taking a considerable amount of time off for that to reboot, but just being tantalized by something that's not happening in the moment is something I assume I should steer clear of, yeah? 

Basically, here's my synopsis.  Any insight as to whether it's a good rule to stick by?

I should treat texts from actual partners as green lights to get aroused and not feel guilty about doing so and this would not stall recovery progress.  But I should only allow my pleasure of these texts and pictures to get me aroused in the moment when they're actually received, and not fantasize (non-MO even) about them later, as this is still a means of fantasy.

Sound okay to you based on your experience?

firstofall22 said:

Pr3c1se said:

  You need a REBOOT not ED DRUGS.

Click to expand...

Hi Pr3c1se,

I feel very related to danb91. I know the target of my reboot is quite far away still, but let's assume that I will go through this and complete the NoPOM Reboot, there is still no guarantee that I will have a normal erection when being with a girl. It could be that I am "healed", but still really really nervous of putting a condome on and finding inside my partner, if you know what I mean. That adrenaline will still kill the boner. Is it wrong to use a pill for the first or second time just to get over this edge?

Cheerio,

first.

Click to expand...

Hey First,

I've heard people do that.  But I would avoid it.  I did not need to do this in order to gain my confidence back.  What I did do, was be honest with the girl I'm dating, and told her I have a bit of sexual anxiety.  She HELPED me work through it.  That's THE BEST METHOD by far.  Women are very caring, so much better than us guys, haha.  They love when a guy feels they can confide in them.  nobody's perfect, you're allowed to have flaws and make mistakes, it doesn't make you a bad person.

I'm telling you, if oyu make it through the reboot, your erections will be STRONG, no question about it. No doubt about it.  Trust in the process and it'll work.  don't doubt it, it does take a while.  It took 4-5 months for me.

The worst thing you can do, is attempt to rush the process or have sex before you're ready.  Don't be afraid to take a break!

once you remove sex/masturbation/porn from your life, you'll see how much freaking time there is to explore other activities/hobbies.

danb91 said:

Pr3c1se said:

Nope, if you're texting/sexting you girl and it's making you hard.  Then great!  Thats an actual girl, with real reactions you're texting!  Once again, if you stop texting her and go into your fantasy world, then it turns into a bad thing! 

The golden rule is this.  ONLY DEAL WITH REAL WOMEN.  No fantasy, no porn.  If the person you are kissing is real, then GO NUTS.  If its an imagination, then STOP!  (thinking about someone real, but not actually toughing her, is NOT REAL!)

Click to expand...

Alright, so for example, today I was Snapchatting with my girl (casual, lightly flirty in nature, nothing explicit and it was a sex-absent conversation), and in a couple of the snaps her cleavage was showing a bit.  This turned me on a little bit, but I didn't get a full-fledged erection and obviously didn't jerk off, as we were Snapchatting in public.  I'm trying to fully grasp the real vs. not-real concept, so if I'm being redundant I apologize.  That said, I assume you'd advise against me thinking of that image later, right?  Not that I'd masturbate to it, because, again, I'm taking a considerable amount of time off for that to reboot, but just being tantalized by something that's not happening in the moment is something I assume I should steer clear of, yeah? 

Basically, here's my synopsis.  Any insight as to whether it's a good rule to stick by?

I should treat texts from actual partners as green lights to get aroused and not feel guilty about doing so and this would not stall recovery progress.  But I should only allow my pleasure of these texts and pictures to get me aroused in the moment when they're actually received, and not fantasize (non-MO even) about them later, as this is still a means of fantasy.

Sound okay to you based on your experience?

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Exactly, you're getting it.  Don't think about that moment later, because that's not really her anymore.  But in the moment she sent it, that was her and it was unexpected!  Does that make sense?

Yes that's perfect.  You got it!

That's called "rewiring" because it's a real person.  I mean don't have your entire relationship via snapchat and texting obviously.

Awesome!  I'm in a toss up between feeling optimistic about a short and lengthy reboot/rewire.  As stated in my original post, I MO'd (almost exclusively PMO) from age 15-24 4-6 times per week and have never actually had sex (despite roughly a dozen attempts).  These factors make me skeptical about a faster recovery.  On the other hand, I watched a video from Nolan Church and read his list (http://addictedtointernetporn.com/?p=97), which I used to try to gauge my addiction level.  Out of a possible 11 factors he listed, only 2-3 applied to me (#'s 1, 10, and somewhat 4).  At the bottom of this list, Church writes that "according to the APA, 'As a general estimate of severity, a mild substance use disorder is suggested by the presence of two to three symptoms'"  This encourages me, but I just wonder where you think I likely will lie on the recovery time scale if I continue to abstain from any MO's or PMO's indefinitely.

Pr3c1se said:

I'm telling you, if oyu make it through the reboot, your erections will be STRONG, no question about it. No doubt about it.  Trust in the process and it'll work.  don't doubt it, it does take a while.  It took 4-5 months for me.

The worst thing you can do, is attempt to rush the process or have sex before you're ready.  Don't be afraid to take a break!

once you remove sex/masturbation/porn from your life, you'll see how much freaking time there is to explore other activities/hobbies.

Click to expand...

This makes a lot of sense, Pr3c1se, it really does. I will wait as long as I have to until I will have sex, I mean come on... I already "waited" 22 years to have a real boner because of PIED, I had sex maybe 3 times really, a lot of fear and disappointment was involved.

I can't wait to enjoy my life the utmost.

danb91 said:

Awesome!  I'm in a toss up between feeling optimistic about a short and lengthy reboot/rewire.  As stated in my original post, I MO'd (almost exclusively PMO) from age 15-24 4-6 times per week and have never actually had sex (despite roughly a dozen attempts).  These factors make me skeptical about a faster recovery.  On the other hand, I watched a video from Nolan Church and read his list (http://addictedtointernetporn.com/?p=97), which I used to try to gauge my addiction level.  Out of a possible 11 factors he listed, only 2-3 applied to me (#'s 1, 10, and somewhat 4).  At the bottom of this list, Church writes that "according to the APA, 'As a general estimate of severity, a mild substance use disorder is suggested by the presence of two to three symptoms'"  This encourages me, but I just wonder where you think I likely will lie on the recovery time scale if I continue to abstain from any MO's or PMO's indefinitely.

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Hey man,

That's a tough call.  From what I've seen on the site people all recover at different lengths. 

I think the best course of action for you is to stop worry about girls for a little while, until you kick this habit.  Then when you feel you're ready to have sex, find yourself a girlfriend.  With that girl, you can be honest with her, and she can help you "rewire" to girls. 

Don't worry about how long it takes.  Worry about getting yourself in the right mindset where you can beat this habit.  Stop PMOing and you will recover.  At some point you will need to wire to women, since you've never successfully experienced having sex with a woman, I'm sure you must have anxiety about it.  It's only natural.  That is why I think you would be best off getting a girlfriend who can help you feel comfortable and learn.  You just need to be honest with her.  You must learn that having a girl in your life is WAY more than just sex.

firstofall22 said:

Pr3c1se said:

I'm telling you, if oyu make it through the reboot, your erections will be STRONG, no question about it. No doubt about it.  Trust in the process and it'll work.  don't doubt it, it does take a while.  It took 4-5 months for me.

The worst thing you can do, is attempt to rush the process or have sex before you're ready.  Don't be afraid to take a break!

once you remove sex/masturbation/porn from your life, you'll see how much freaking time there is to explore other activities/hobbies.

Click to expand...

This makes a lot of sense, Pr3c1se, it really does. I will wait as long as I have to until I will have sex, I mean come on... I already "waited" 22 years to have a real boner because of PIED, I had sex maybe 3 times really, a lot of fear and disappointment was involved.

I can't wait to enjoy my life the utmost.

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Not going to lie, with my new girlfriend, we have sex a ton and it's amazing.  Some of the best feeling sex I've ever had.  I am confident it's because I've kicked my PMO/MO habit.  Some nights without her it sucks because I am horny and she's not around to take care of me, but I just have patience and I don't touch myself because I know it'll just make the next time I see her that much better.  It's completely worth abstaining from all types of masturbation.  The difference between the connection with you and your woman when you watch porn, and when you stop watching porn is incredible.