How long until start seeing significant changes?

i am new here and have experienced ED and DE for about 8 years. I am in my early 30s and I started using internet porn when I was in my early 20s. Very frequently. I had a very stressful life with career, school, etc. and I always used internet porn as a stress relief. Edged all the time too. Never knew it was bad for me...

First time I had a problem when I was 24. Lost erection during sex and couldn't get it back. I thought it was due to stress and weight gain. Heck, the last 8 years I assumed that was the culprit and that everything would work its way out. However, I lost 30 pounds, best shape of my life, and not a lot of stress in my life and had same problem with last 2 sex partners over past year. Managed to have sex but could only do it on my back and lost erection a couple of times. not what I want or my partners want ha.

I managed to have gfs and a sex life over the years with drugs such as  Cialis (it used to work for 5 days) but 1) I always had DE which bothered me and sometimes gfs; 2) I didn't like having to rely on drugs; and 3) the drugs are starting to not work as well. a few months ago I started doing more internet research and found YBOP and made the connection. Unreal. I cant believe I never suspected that internet and MO was the culprit but after reading symptoms and other guys experiences, I have the same issues: ED (can get about 60-70% erection, maybe a bit more on my back); DE; loss of sensitivy; and lose erection pretty quickly once I get it to 100%. I am almost positive it is PIED.

Anyways, after finding YBOP, I started the reboot in mid Oct. Couldn't quit cold turkey so first I eliminated porn, then reduced MO to only every other day (used to be multiple times per day). By Nov. 10 I was ready to go "hard mode". Anyways, my libido was so high I only made it 5 days and then had to MO because I couldn't manage...but then ...after the O it was like magic...my ED and DE seemed to be cured! full erections  even standing up, regained sensitivity, and everything was so sensitive I thought I might have the opposite problem of PE. Anyways for the next week I was on cloud 9! I actually resumed a normal MO schedule of daily. Unfortunately, after a week I somehow went back to square 1 of ED and DE and sensitivity vanished for the most part. My first question to this forum is did anyone have anything similar occur during their initial period of their reboot? Quick result and then back to sq 1?

After that I decided to give the 90 days a try since that is the magic number I hear most often. Luckily, I hit a flatline after week 1 and it is now day 25. If my libido didn't drop i duno if i could make it ha. My libido is starting to return but def not what it was before. I am trying not to test but I haven't seen significant results yet. Morning erections are stronger sometimes but that is about it. My second q for the forum, is when during their reboot, did people start to see noticeable results??  Are the results more gradual usually or is it more like all of a sudden on day 70 bam big improvement? I know many people post qs about how long till cured, but my q is how long until people see noticeable results. Just curious. Is it normal to go first month without seeing much in terms of progress? Everyone's opinion is appreciated. Gabe, particularly interested in your incite!

Hi Gambit.  I suppose we really need to define "hard mode" and why is it necessary to the reboot. 

The thing about PMO and MO is that, unless they caused problems in our lives, we would not consider them a problem that needed to be fixed.  But they do cause problems.  Why?  It is important to understand the "why" of our problem, the mechanics of it, if you will, to solve it.  As this is your first post, and I see few of the concepts you need to consider referenced in it, I will presume you can benefit from an education.  The "bible" of understand the porn, aka dopamine, addiction cycle is this video.  Gabe thinks so too, I think, because it is on this site's home page.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSF82AwSDiU

I actually have another window open and an listening to the above video as I type this.  I have watched the video, in whole or in part, literally hundreds of times, and I usually recommend it to any newbie quitting. 

You first question is:  Did anyone have a similar experience to you when rebooting?  The answer is, yes, many of us, but rebooting, if done right, involves the hard 90, 90 days no porn, no PMO, no MO, no O (unless with a living breathing partner) and avoiding hypersexualized thoughts, which include but are not limited to thoughts of porn, remembering porn, thinking of porn, sexual fantasy, etc..  But your problem, in my opinion, is that you are not and have not done the hard 90.  As I said, the reboot, if done right, involves the hard 90, but the reboot, if done wrong, is actually perpetuating the problem, it is just lessening your dopamine consumption a bit while you lie to yourself about making progress.  I, and many of us here, by the way, have done that.  Addicts routinely lie to themselves, and others, if that is what it takes to continue the addiction.  You talk about a "normal MO schedule of daily."  Here is the problem.  MO involves hypersexual thoughts.  Hypersexual thoughts cause a dopamine high.  Repeated dopamine highs is where the addiction forms.  So, having a regular schedule of MO is not fixing the problem, it is prolonging it. 

To answer your question, the "results" are gradual.  I don't know anyone who was seriously addicted to porn/dopamine who got to day 90, woke up, and never struggled with it again.  Your question is a bit loaded though, if I may say, because you talk about results and progress.  It presumes that getting free of the addiction suddenly makes everything fantastic, but, understand, the reboot is sort of like going from negative numbers up to 0.  We are not struggling here to improve ourselves, I mean in a sense we are, but really we are trying to reboot our brain's reward center to a pre porn dopamine response place.  From 0 we might improve in many ways, but beating porn just means getting back to a place where we can enjoy normal sex, without DE or ED.  The reason you are having DE and ED is dopamine, and by that I mean, your brain no longer rewards actual sex with a sufficient dopamine release.  Why not?  You have rewired it to reward porn, PMO, and MO over sex, you have "desensitized" your reward center to prefer porn, PMO, and MO over sex.  MO?  Yes.  A lot of addicts in recovery do not understand the harm in merely MOing, but if you are an addict, you probably are not MOing while thinking of making an omlett aka omelette; I can almost guarantee you that during MO you are giving yourself a dopamine spike by using hypersexual thoughts to reach that happy ending.  Of course, we don't know we are doing this to ourselves at the time because porn addiction is not, yet, taught in school.

25 days is good, but you need to get to 90.  I see a lot of guys asking about results and progress, but the interesting thing is, once they get to 90, if they can make it hard mode, the question becomes far less relevant because the problem is either solved or under control. 

Watch the vid, understand what is going on in their. And understand "hard mode"  That feeling of not being able to "manage", you have to feel that, and still not relapse, for up to three months.  It does get easier between day 15 and day 50, but easier and easy are not the same thing.  For me, now, it's piece of cake, I never struggle with relapse.  I do have days where I miss a dopamine high, but that hunger, if you will, does not bother me or challenge me, at this point out I know I will NEVER relapse, and I have months were the thought of it never crosses my mind. 

I hope this helps.

Peace.

Will I AM

I cannot thank you enough for your detailed response. I really appreciate you taking the time to provide me with all this information! You seem like you really know what you are talking about and have had a successful reboot. I have a couple of quick follow up questions for you.

1. A lot of posts and advisors here say don't test erections - do not even touch for 3-4 months. Do you agree with this? how will you know if you are making progress though if you don't test? I guess one can just be patient for 3-4 months and then test.

2. Sex with real partners during reboot. Good idea or bad? Some people say it is good for the rewiring process but what if you need to take a Cialis to have successful sex? Also, isn't the no O critical to the reboot? so if you O during sex isn't that a setback?

3. fantasizing. I know they say during your reboot to avoid fantasy and thoughts of sex. however, we are all guys here...if no PMO wasn't hard enough, to eliminate even thoughts of sex? sounds impossible. I try my best to think of something else when a sexual thought enters my mind but sometimes it is difficult. most of my sexual thoughts now though since I eliminated porn are of past partners / gs, and women I know . Are these sexual thoughts equally as bad as fantasizing about porn during the reboot?

4. I guess this is a follow on to q. 3. They say not to think about sex but also say dating women, socializing with them, and kissing them, cuddling, etc is very beneficial. how can you do this and not think about sex though? Isnt the entire purpose to give your entire reward circuit and dopamine system a complete break? if you kiss girls and cuddle with htem, you will have sexual thoughts and get aroused (even if you have ed, arousal on some level). Doesn't this cause a dopamine reaction and interrupts your reboot? or am I missing something here?

your incite (and anyone else's incite) is so appreciated! As an aside, I am so thankful I found this and other websites. It is a relief to know that I am not the only one who has struggled with this and it is such a relief to know the problem, the cause and the cure. For years I just thought I was cursed even though I was able to have successful sex with Cialis. However, I just wanted a normal sex life with Os. I am thankful that I may be able to have that one day maybe even in the near future! Thanks to all in advance and merry xmas!

Good luck Gambit! Your posts are thoughtful and ask many of the same questions I ask and haven't really found solid answers to. First I'd just like to say Ciailis and Viagra suck. If I never have to experience the flushed face, teeth grinding and awful headache that they bring on I will be a very happy man. (They are also expensive). As far as the reboot goes, I'm pretty sure Gary Wilson stresses that the main focus should be on avoiding all ARTIFICIAL stimulation. He says, 'what fires together wires together', so if you are cuddling and kissing an actual human during reboot, then you are positively rewiring your sexual response if you are getting turned on by your partner (and not simultaneously thinking of porn fantasy). Canoodling with a real partner means you are getting dopamine from the right sources and strengthening those pathways. The trick is to just not go back to any thoughts or actions from porn, which would undo your positive changes. Anyway, that is how I understand it. I am not MO because I can't imagine doing it without some type of hypersexual thoughts (porn fantasy or thoughts of ex partners) so I'm just not MOing until I build a good foundation. My plan is to go 60 days hardmode and then after that be open to some slow, real-time progress (no O) with a partner to try to get the right pathways fired up again. If anyone with more experience with this wants to chime in, please do.

Has anyone ever heard of situations with little progress after a month or two of no pmo with little progress and then an orgasm jump starts everything and no ed.after the orgasm? Gabes page seems to imply that. I think that may have been what happened to me after my first week before going hard mode (before I went hardmode did 5 days couldnt take it and had to mo and then ed was cured for a week and then back to square one)

On a seperate note, I am dating a beautiful cool.women...I have been doing hard mode for 28 days and have only seen small sporadic results..dont know whether I should pop.a viagra and have sex or just be honest w her whats goong on and wait till I see some results before I have sex. Thoughts anyone? Could use some support, its been rough on me

Hi Gambit, you asked a few questions and I will try and answer them.

1.  Yes, I agree, hard  mode for 90 days.  Period.  You are trying to rewired years of conditioned response to porn.  It will take a few months to get back to normal.  You can starve the addiction to death, but feeding it, even a little, prolongs it, so, starve it. 

2.  Real sex with real people?  This is a question within a question.  Can you have sex?  Your post says you suffer from ED.  If that is true, then avoid all sex during the hard 90.  Think of it as a limited time in your life to spend a lifetime back at normal.  I don't always say "no" during the hard 90, for everyone, but for guys with ED, I recommend it.  You are here to fix the problem or perpetuate it.  I suggest you fix it.  Remember, a limited time in your life to have a future of freedom. 

3.  No fantasy.  What is fantasy?  Fantasy is using hypersexual thoughts to get a dopamine high.  A lot of guys associate our problem with O or PMO, but actually, dopamine is released in response to thoughts.  The happy ending of O really has very little to do with dopamine release, dopamine release is about lust, about seeking sex, about thinking of it, so, fantasy is a reboot killer and a no no. 

4.  Here is the thing, during the reboot, especially guys with ED and DE, most cannot have sex without using fantasy.  If those guys, and you identify as one, could have sex without fantasy, you would not have DE or ED.  Put another way, they use hypersexualized thoughts to get off, they can be with a woman, but mentally being with that woman won't work because they have sensitized their reward center to pornographic thoughts.  If you want to hang out with women, date them, spend time with them, cuddle with them, all that is healthy and normal. but if you have to plug porn into the brain to get it up or get off, you are just perpetuating the problem, not fixing it, so I suggest taking 90 days and living like a saint.  See, if you could be with the woman you are with mentally, in the first place, you would not have ED.  The reason you have that is that porn is what works for your reward center now, not women, so, the question is kind of loaded, isn't it?  Go the hard 90, hopefully by then your ED is behind you, and you can be with the woman, mentally, you are with, physically. 

Last question, it is different for everyone but 90 is the gold standard.  Some guys get clean before, but even for them I recommend doing the full 90, others take longer.  Gabe, I think, went 9 months to get it back.  The thing about "getting back to square one", means you are free from the withdrawals that cause relapses.  I would avoid the Viagra.  It's a short cut, not a fix.  Once you get to this side of clean, you probably won't need it.  I know I don't.  I cannot tell you whether to be honest with her or not, but I can say, get clean, then you won't have to be other than honest with whoever you are with. 

There is a reason hard mode is not called easy mode.  It is hard.  Get to 90 days clean, and you probably won't be asking the same questions because the worst will be behind you. 

Peace.

Will I AM. 

http://legacy.rebootnation.org/index.php?topic=1256.0

Gambit123 said:

Has anyone ever heard of situations with little progress after a month or two of no pmo with little progress and then an orgasm jump starts everything and no ed.after the orgasm? Gabes page seems to imply that. I think that may have been what happened to me after my first week before going hard mode (before I went hardmode did 5 days couldnt take it and had to mo and then ed was cured for a week and then back to square one)

On a seperate note, I am dating a beautiful cool.women...I have been doing hard mode for 28 days and have only seen small sporadic results..dont know whether I should pop.a viagra and have sex or just be honest w her whats goong on and wait till I see some results before I have sex. Thoughts anyone? Could use some support, its been rough on me

Click to expand...

I definately suggest being 100% honest with her and not popping a pill just yet (although I agree it can be very hard not to). If she accepts what you are going through and willing to support you then she is definately a keeper. Also, do remember that you can have wonderful sex even without a raging erection, if your penis doesnt respond at all just make the entire session all about cuddling, kissing and satisfying her. Remember, we have more bodyparts than our penis

Thank you both for your incite!

Out of curiosity, are there people here who showed little to no results in their first 30 days but fully recovered after the hard 90? Sometimes I feel like I am torturing myself for no reason and this thing doesnt work

Hi Gambit.  The thing about the reboot is, it is different for everyone, but everyone who does it shows results.  It is not a gradual thing for most, for most it is good days and bad day, but in starts and stops.  You will have a few good days then, bam, major withdrawals, then wake up one day and it is easier.  Some have very bad days up to and after 90, but the thing is, around that point a lot start having back to back good days.  "Good days" being days where the problem does not occur to us, where it is easy not to relapse because relapsing is simply something we don't think about.  It does work, but you have to put the time in.  That is easily said for me this far out, I remember the beginning when every day was a struggle.  I have not had a day when I struggled for many hundreds of days now.  This can be you too.

Peace.

Learn to love the flatline.
I see many rebooters who complain about their dead cocks during flatline periods. With all the pain and suffering my cock has caused me im glad when i hit a flatline! When my idiot penis is ready to start acting normal and listen to what i tell it ill welcome it back.
Until then It can stay dead.

Fappy said:

Learn to love the flatline.

Click to expand...

LOL. That's a great line.  Like "porn is not an option," and "stay away from pixels," which I think Gabe has said quite a few times.  We should collect these somewhere, as handy little reminders or motivators. 

Agreed about the flatline. I have been coasting through the last several weeks. If my libido was anything like the firstweek of my rreboot it would be ten times harder. I get aome morning erections and am a bit horny the first 30 mins of my day but then I go back into my flatline. Anyone have anything similar? Another  Question. Is the fact that one has a flatline clear.evidence that your ed is.pied?

Yeah im similar. But ive since learnt when the urges are strongest during the day or night and stop them in their tracks. I replace the thought with something else and the flatline continues. I hold onto the flatline all day, i enjoy it. That feeling of not having a dick is a welcome rest from before!
As for your PIED question, it might very well be the case. Since there is no visual stimuli to induce sexual excitement or erection, the penis just doesnt respond. Its lost its life force. Until new neurological pathways are constructed (rewiring), normal feelings of sexual intimacy or touching with a partner wont get a rise out of it.
Starving the brain of porn results in a flatline and a dead cock, which strangely enough is the first sign of recovery to normal sexual function. Weird...

If one sees only minimal results in first thirty days (most.of which has been.a flatlone) is this a sign it will.be a longer reboot?

"If one sees only minimal results in first thirty days (most.of which has been.a flatlone) is this a sign it will.be a longer reboot?"

No way to know, but don't miss the tree for the forest.  Put another way, don't let yourself get distracted with how the reboot is going or if it is going right or how long it is going to take, just get to 90 hard mode.  If you are going hard more I promise you by the end of 90 days those questions will not seem very relevant to you because by then you will made significant progress in rebooting, which you will be able to see and feel.   

30 days hardmode complete. Wohooo. and I round day 30 in a serious flatline. Praying good results in 2015.

Does anyone here go in and out of flatlines ? I feel that has been happening to me.

I no longer crave watching porn and most of my sexual thoughts are about my own past sexual experience s or the girl im dating. This is a good sign! Just hope my ed is cured after the 90 day hardmode. Hope everyone is staying strong during their reboot.

I have finished 30 day hardmode and really have seen little no to results. Anyone here who has recovered after seeing little to no results in first month? I am getting concerned this is not working Anyone's support would be helpful.

Hi Gambit, first of all, 30 days is fantastic.  I can tell from your post you are a bit frustrated. Being a "bit frustrated" is part of the reboot process.  It is, in fact, a withdrawal symptom, in my opinion. We all want an easy out.  I know I did.  It did not happen.  Now, 500 days clean, every day is quite easy, but during the hard 90, well, they don't call it the "hard" 90 for no reason, they do not call it the easy 90. 

I want you to keep posting here.  On a regular basis. Whatever you do, do not relapse.  Easy said, difficult to do.  I think in 60 days you won't be asking the same questions.  Everyone who goes through the reboot asks the same questions you ask.  We want it to be over and we want results now, but, 30 days clean, while great, is still a long way from rebooted.  Remember, during the hard 90 you must stay away from ALL artificial sexual stimulation.  Forgive me if this sounds patronizing, but...be patient.  Part of the reboot is denying instant gratification and embracing denial.  For most of us, before day 90 is quite difficult, but after day 90 it becomes much easier.  I want you to shoot for 90 days.  It could take you more, but I think by then you will see results.  Don't be surprised if you don't see results much before that.  We all have taken years to condition our brain's reward system to reward porn.  Conditioning it back, rewiring it to reality, takes, for most, at least 3 months.  Everyone is frustrated the first month, and the second month, and most of the third, but for many, close to the end of the third month, we start waking up and thinking of something other than the reboot and the reason behind it. 

Keep going.  Porn is not an option.

Will I Am,

Thank you for your support. I consider myself a strong person but this is something that I a let get to my emotions. your support and the support of this forum is very helpful. I will take your advice and post here often. Here is what I am feeling today.

I guess I just have a range of emotions flowing through me. First, I am anxious for three reasons. First, I did edge a few times in the morning when I had some morning erections (which came some days) during this last month and I know that is bad for you. I was testing and I guess it lead to some edging. Perhaps that had a negative effect on my first month, I hope not though. Also, although I try not to think about sex, I do. I naturally have a high sex drive like a lot of guys so that is why this is particularly hard. However, I have been in somewhat of a flatline for the 3 weeks which has helped. If my libido was raging like it was the first week it would be much harder.

Second, I am just anxious about this reboot not working. Most of the success stories told about stronger erections their first month, noticeable changes, etc. I have not experienced that except before doing hardmode I did go 1 week in November without PMO and I did see amazing results  after the MO for a week before these benefits magically vanished. Perhaps this is a sign that the process works and I got a glimpse of it, maybe not. I read about some reboots taking 2 yrs and I do hope that is not me. I do not know if I can go 2 years without sexual relation with a woman.

Third, I feel like if this doesn't work, it is going to affect my life in tremendously negative way. All I want in life is a nice gf and family some day. Also, a great sex life with said gf.  I feel that if I cannot resolve this issue with this reboot, the gf / family / sex life become very difficult to achieve. At the very least, I miss having an active sex life which I had a few years ago largely relying on pills like cialis. I can still pop pills now but I don't want that. Plus they are losing their effectiveness. I haven't had good sex in 2 years and I guess you can say im sexually frustrated on top of the stress that this reboot is causing me.

I am also angry at myself for doing this to myself. If I hadn't formed this bad habit, I woudn't be here in the first place and I have would have 100 percent good sexual health.

I remain determined to do the hard 90 and see what happens. I also recognize from reading about the reboot the reboot can give you mood swings and maybe that is what I am experiencing. Perhaps I have been on break too long and need to return to work and that will keep my mind off the reboot and sex. I guess I would just feel a lot better about things if I saw something noticeable during the first 30 days of hardmode but I guess I need to learn to be patient and have a little faith, even though that seems difficult. Even though I cant help but think about sex during the day sometimes, I am still in the flatline and it feels a bit dead down there which is scary. I know this is common in the reboot but it still is a bit scary having low libido and not much life down there. However, i have little desire to MO which I guess is a good thing, although I do have to fight urges to watch P sometimes.

5 weeks in of hard mode after a month.of soft mode and I haven't see any sign of progress. Sigh this is getting depressing.