Can we make it so, nationwide, kids (and addicts) can't access porn so easily?

In reading this, bear in mind that I don?t care if other adults look at porn. I just know that I can?t, you can't or your SO can't:

Everything. Everything around you started with a thought or an idea. Here is an idea that needs to be created and brought into reality.

Why isn?t pornography regulated like alcohol, cigarettes, guns, etc.?
Porn could be regulated so use would be limited to adults. If an adult wanted to look at porn they would register so as to prove they are an adult. I guess it is because of how the internet works it seems difficult to regulate. We could control porn within our borders, but porn from outside the United States will come in anyway. There has to be a solution to this. It starts with a thought.

It?s shame that kids (future adults) have such easy access to this. This is similar to giving kids as many guns as the want (for free) then finishing it up by loading them up with liquor bottles, cigarettes and letting them gamble as much as they want. Where would that lead?
Oh my God!

In regards to porn addiction, when I quit smoking pot 30 years ago (another of my addictions), I stopped going to my dealer?s home. That made it possible to stop.  How would things have turned out if everywhere I went there were burning joints laying around, mine for the taking? Hello.

You can think about this like an alcoholic working the 12 steps in AA, but there are open liquor bottles sitting around for the taking, everywhere he or she goes, including the AA meetings.

In my opinion there has to be a way to regulate porn use. I?m not an IT person so I don?t know what it would take, but imagine if easy access to porn stopped right now, today. How many men would quit porn and go back to being the men there were supposed to be? Imagine how that would change, for the better, a lot of relationships harmed by porn use. There are so many women suffering because of this easy access. Could turn theirs and our pain, the suffering to productive use?

Many of the guys in the noporn forums struggle to make it 30 days without porn. The only way to stop the addiction is through sheer will power and/or threats from their partners. There has to be a better way.

I couldn?t do it myself, but a group numbering in the 100s of thousands could. Throw in religious backing and I?m sure we could change the way things are. I'm not talking about bitching and moaning in a forum. I am talking about what we need to do, real world, to fix this. We can find away to regulate who looks at and has access to porn. We could use the internet to create a change. I know that the porn industry with all the cash they have would fight back tooth and nail, but there are more of us and we vote.

I would be willing to fight for porn regulation as best as I could. I'm not sure how to get started but I bet we could figure it out.

It starts with a thought and an idea.

I would love to get feedback, good and bad on this. If you have an idea of how to get the process started I'm all ears.

Don G.

I agree completely.  I often have this thought too.  It frustrates me that I have to pay money for filtering software to keep porn out of my house.  By default it is there, and I don't want it there at all.

I heard on NPR last month an interview with a state attorney general in the US who led the fight against tobacco companies.  I think something similar should be done with porn.  Hold the porn industry accountable for all of the money they are making off of everyone who gets involved in this highly addictive behavior.  I don't remember the name or the state this guy was from. But maybe if you did some searching online to look for this piece from NPR it would be a start. 

I don't have the time or energy right now to take on this fight.  But when I do I thought it would be interesting to contact this AG and see what his thought were.  Another thought was a class action lawsuit in general.  Right now my husband and I are looking at spending money on therapy for both of our recovery.  Some weeks, we spend more 10-20 hours discussing the damage porn has done to our relationship.  porn also has been damaging to emotional - and then by extension physical health. 

I think a case could easily be made that the pain and suffering and expense caused by porn should be paid for by an industry that makes so much money off of the suffering it causes.  Not to mention the abuse to porn stars... a whole other group of people who suffer tremendously. 

Don't have time for this now....must work on my own recovery and relationship first. 

I think at some point - in a decade or two? - our country will learn from this and enact changes - just like cigarettes. 

Good luck in your endeavors. 

I think the issue is mainly how (or if) it could be implemented in any meaningful way - and in a way that does more good than harm.

Any regulation of the internet brings up scary issues about state censorship and our ability to control the online flow of information.

I don't know if it's still in place, but the UK had an "opt-in" system, where all p would be blocked unless the household opted to remove the block. The system wouldn't however help to control user access in households that opt in, so an additional system is needed - a relevant issue for every parent who uses p.

I also heard about multiple cases, where non p sites would be blocked because of sex-related material the algorithm didn't categorize properly. Where as a few sites having to apply for reinstatement isn't a big deal in itself, it does bring up questions about effectual censorship by actors posting p or sex related content on sites that then has to go through an appeal process to be reinstated. Because of the scope of some sites, it could be difficult for the sites to monitor their own sites effectively. And given the vastness of the internet, it wouldn't be a surprise if the process resulted in a long waiting list of cases up for manual review.

At this point I am at least ambivalent about the idea.

On the other hand I think a lot could be done through education. With drugs, alcohol, smoking etc. we make an informed choice and we should have the same option regarding the negative consequences of p use. I think a lot could be achieved by getting information about p into the public schools where it would be easy to reach out to both students and parents.

I don't know how it should be done. It should probably both be part of sex ed education and taught by outside counselors (something as awkward as this probably require true professionals lol). And they kids should be taught early - a few years before they reach puberty at least.

yesyes1234 said:

I think the issue is mainly how (or if) it could be implemented in any meaningful way - and in a way that does more good than harm.

Any regulation of the internet brings up scary issues about state censorship and our ability to control the online flow of information.

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I think people reflexively respond to ideas like this a "oh no, censorship, freedom of speech/inofrmation" way. But I think it's a hysterical reaction. Control of content does not necessarily lead to all the dire consequences that libertarians will have you believe. The key is to control what is most damaging to society. I mean, we control things like hate speech, racial and religious vilification, and the like - and we don't seem to bat an eyelid because we consider that to be benevolent control. Just because we are still holding on to this notion that full expression of sexuality is healthy doesn't mean that it is. Sexuality has as many ways to go wrong as anything else. We shouldn't be relying on our own innate nature to guide us though this. Porn is a perfect example - it has developed in a largely Darwinian way, with practically no control or limitation. It has not become this wonderful expression of human sexuality, it hasn't made people happier, less depressed/anxious, more productive, or more satisfied - it's done the opposite. It's drawn on the worst aspects of human sexual perversion, and it's even managed to normalise them such that young people today think that this is how you're supposed to practice sexuality. Give me censorship over that any day. Having spent some time in communist countries, I no longer consider what they do to be any worse or oppressive than what we do in Western countries. I think we are far too proud of our accomplishments in the West, and we overlook our massive shortcomings - of which there are many. If we could accomplish porn control in an effective way, that would be a sign of a wise and progressive society, not a regressive one. It's not about what freedoms we deny society, it's what promotes a healthy and cohesive society. Porn has done nothing to promote that. People who claim it does are in delusion about a whole lot of things in regard to how free the mind really is from societal messaging and media influence.

Censorship is one part of the issue which I don't think should be taken lightly. From someone who doesn't seem to have much faith in our societal system, you seem to be very optimistic about the possibility of something like censorship of the internet.

It's interesting you bring up hate speech as a comparable form of control and not, lets say drug control and the war on drugs, which hasn't worked and has created more harm than good. It should be a reminder that there is a huge difference between how an idea works in theory and in practice.

Censorship is only one part of the issue, another is if it's even possible to control something as vast as the internet. I don't think censorship would result in eradicating p, it would instead just shift the market and the ways in which the consumer had to access it. Access through encryption, pirating sites, hands on sharing of p etc. are a few examples that spring to mind

Right now we have a pretty centralized system with the big tube sites dominating the market share. If we are to regulate, it makes more sense to attempt to impose regulation on them instead of having to deal with a fragmented market it's impossible to even grasp. Regulations like tagging hardcore content, keeping hardcore and more normal p separate, not allowing advertisement for hardcore p etc. are a few examples that might help us in the right direction.

Also, I think education would be way more effective. When people decide to use drugs or drink alcohol, they know it has the potential to harm them. They still don't about p.

For the performers who choose to go into the industry, I think education would be very effective. It seems like a lot of them don't expect just how saturated the market is and how few job offers they will get, unless they go into hardcore/niche stuff.

Just a few things I would also like to point out. I don't think all p users have escalated. It is possible for some to consume it without suffering major consequences.

Having spent some time in communist countries, I no longer consider what they do to be any worse or oppressive than what we do in Western countries

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Historically, this is a pretty illiterate perspective given the death tolls under those systems - is it about 25 million in Russia and 50 million in China? There hasn't ever been a communist country that was successive in implementing its vision and been able to compete with the standard of living in the west. 

yesyes1234 said:

Historically, this is a pretty illiterate perspective given the death tolls under those systems - is it about 25 million in Russia and 50 million in China? There hasn't ever been a communist country that was successive in implementing its vision and been able to compete with the standard of living in the west.

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Sorry, but that's laughable to call me illiterate just for saying what western powers have done is not particularly superior to what communist countries have done. You sound like somebody who has bought hook, line and sinker the lies we are taught about our history. Western governments have killed countless people themselves through imperial dominance of other countries. Do you not know about the ethnic cleansing and enslavement programs we have engaged in? The infinite resources we have stolen from smaller countries? Talk about illiterate. We shouldn't be so quick to pat ourselves on the back. We are raised from day one to view ourselves favourably compared to other regions of the world - we act like we are living the dream of freedom, but it's a lie. We are enslaved by so many forces I don't even know where to begin.

By the way, the standard of living in China is steadily increasing. And let's not gloss over the poverty that we tend to ignore in our own countries. GDP isn't everything - it glosses over the incredibly uneven distribution of wealth. And yes, porn is a non-issue in China with the mainstream. 

Back to the subject at hand. I wasn't going to launch into a list of everything that has failed through attempts to control it. The fact is, we seem to be able to limit to some extent, the dissemination of some forms of expression. I don't think it's a technological impossibility to reduce/limit access to porn, there simply isn't the will to do it. For starters, as we know, most people don't even know or believe that it can ruin lives. So there is no imperative to do anything about it. Censorship would of course drive it underground and it would never be eradicated entirely (much like hate speech), but even to get it out of the general population would be a good thing, IMO. If there are people determined enough to root it out and ruin their brains, so be it, but let's limit the damage to as many people as we can. As a society we were actually ok before porn became mainstream. It was still possible to get, but most people didn't bother because it was too much effort. I'd be happy to see it become a serious effort to get hold of porn. That would allow the mainstream to recalibrate back to a less porn-drenched state.

In much the same way, it would be great if governments put a massive tax on refined sugar. It wouldn't stop people being able to get it, but it would reduce its impact on the general populace by making it an appalling waste of money and encourage a return to nutritious food. You probably think that is also unacceptable censorship, and maybe it is, but look at what's happening to our health in the meantime. Maybe a bit of benevolent dictatorship is called for sometimes...

Sorry, but that's laughable to call me illiterate just for saying what western powers have done is not particularly superior to what communist countries have done

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Lol, yes it is. This is not to say that the west isn't corrupt and do unethical things, of course we do, but comparably there is no question. Just a single one of those countries in less than half a century has killed infinitely more of it's own people than the west has done in more than a century. Imagine how they would have acted towards other nations if they actually had the resources to expand their power. At least the west has comparatively secured many rights internally. 

The most unethical and dubious about the west is definitely our foreign policy, but it's worth keeping in mind that for a large part we were competing with foreign powers/systems. It's not like the communist regimes didn't attempt to expand their powers, but thank god they weren't successful. This is not to excuse acts like the Vietnam war because of course all of that was horrible.

Living standards in China is rising because they have adopted trade and capitalist policies. Living standards throughout the world risen due to capitalism and it is being implementing. We reached the UN goal to cut poverty in half way before our target date. Also China has actually deregulated access to p now.

I don't think the most effective way would be p control. Drugs and alcohol are pretty easily accessible, but we don't overuse because we know the dangers. It should be the same with P. But lets keep the time frame in mind. It took a while before we realized the dangers of alcohol and drugs and high speed internet and tube sites are not much more than a decade old. We have to accept that it takes time for this information to be studied and spread. I do see some changes though - the past year or two I have seen an increasing amount of exposure in mainstream outlets. Maybe it will be mainstream knowledge in 5 years or so. Unfortunately for us, we were the first guinea pigs to be affected.

Maybe it would make it slightly more difficult to get access, but it would also drive new innovations to bypass the regulations. And considering the interest and resources the P industry has, especially now it has become a more valuable commodity, I wouldn't bet on our government.

I'm not against some form of regulation, but I'm not sure what would be effective. I am, however, convinced education would.

yesyes1234 said:

Also China has actually deregulated access to p now.

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No, actually they don't. Have you been there? Can you cite any articles that state there is deregulated access to P in China? I'm only interested in factual reports, not vague statements. For the record, I've been there, before I quit porn, I tried to see how easy it was to view porn after hearing how censored the internet is there. I discovered that data carriers have very tough filters on their content as mandated by the government. The only way to have unfettered access is to use VPNs or other backdoor portals. My partner is Chinese - she has confirmed this. She knows about her own country.

Regarding Western superiority - I'm going to guess that you are from the US? You wouldn't even know how much your educational system has fed you a one-sided view of history and your country's role in international affairs. My country is an extension of your country, and trust me, I know it ain't pretty. It's bad enough that there's no need to compare atrocities - they should all be considered in the panorama of appalling state-sanctioned conduct.

In any case, let's keep this thread on topic and not drag this out into a long derailment about imperial powers.

I read it in Eli Parisers 2015 "The filter Bubble". But looking at it now, I see that it doesn't really dive into detail about the issue. I reckon your partner probably knows more about it than me.

I'm not, but I'm from Europe. I don't believe in the onside image we sometimes present ourselves, of course we are also oppressive and corrupt, and yes especially our foreign policy has been really grim, but that doesn't mean that it's all equal. Judging the two systems, you have to include all the bad and all the good, and on that basis the west and capitalism are miles ahead of any communist state/system.

But yeah, we should get back on topic

yesyes1234 said:

But yeah, we should get back on topic

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Agreed.

And I do agree that education is a vital part of the solution. It's a combination of access control and education.

I posted this on another forum. I think it is a viable doable idea.

First I would like to say that I would like the government to enforce pornography laws that I believe are already in place. Again, you can't legally buy printed porn if you're underage.

There have already been discussions about creating a "XXX" domain. If a business provided porn they would have to use the XXX domain. If a porn business posted on a .com or whatever then they could be fined by the FTC.

If an adult wanted access to the XXX domain they would contact their internet provider by phone or in person to gain access. This couldn't be done online - too easy to manipulate or cheat.

Of course this isn't a cure all, but it is what could be done fairly easily.

How does this idea sound?

Don

Hey Don,  BRAVO!!!! 

I applaud you and I applaud Malando's serious response to your topic.  Bravo to you Malando - I really mean it. 

I really like what you are proposing.  It makes complete sense to apply the same laws that already exist concerning porn magazines and strip clubs, etc.  Porn and strip clubs are already regulated to where you have to go out of your way to purchase it and consume it. 

I like the XXX idea.  It doesn't take porn away from anyone who wants to pay for it.  And it makes it much easier for adults to keep it out of reach from kids or from oneself if they are recovering from porn addiction or if they are a recovering partner who is triggered. 

Many of the guys in the noporn forums struggle to make it 30 days without porn. The only way to stop the addiction is through sheer will power and/or threats from their partners. There has to be a better way.

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absolutely!  this is way too painful for both PA and partners.  As a partner I can attest to this.  The easy access to porn creates an extra strain on the relationship and rebuilding trust. 

I couldn?t do it myself, but a group numbering in the 100s of thousands could. Throw in religious backing and I?m sure we could change the way things are. I'm not talking about bitching and moaning in a forum. I am talking about what we need to do, real world, to fix this. We can find away to regulate who looks at and has access to porn. We could use the internet to create a change. I know that the porn industry with all the cash they have would fight back tooth and nail, but there are more of us and we vote

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  I'm with you brother!  this is how progress in our society has been created - everyday citizens who care getting together to create change in our society.  This is how the labor movement created the 40 hr work with and benefits.  this is how child labor laws were created - every day citizens banding together in the 100s and thousands. Have you heard of the 100th monkey affect?  Very powerful.  Or the Tipping Point by Malcolm Gladwell? Very inspiring.  If you are interested in knowing more about these 2 things i'm happy to share. 

I would be willing to fight for porn regulation as best as I could. I'm not sure how to get started but I bet we could figure it out.

It starts with a thought and an idea.

I would love to get feedback, good and bad on this. If you have an idea of how to get the process started I'm all ears.

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  Yes! it starts with an idea.  I applaud you for your determination and vision and your willingness to fight!  When I am healed and our relationship is healed, I can more actively join the fight.  right now, I'm more in place of putting the oxygen mask on myself right now and healing.  But I can contribute my ideas on this topic here. 

I'm curious what has been the response from the other forum you posted this on? 

I haven't posted much more to this conversation because some of the posts here do not feel to me to be supportive of what you are proposing.  I don't have time for people who don't "get it" and who want to keep porn access available for all and who automatically pull out the censorship card. This isn't a theoretical/hypothetical debate. I actually had this as a year long debate topic in high school. Pornography and censorship.  That was for the purpose of debate. What you are talking about is saving people's lives and relationships.  you are talking about sparing children from this pain,  and people who struggle with this addiction too!

I only have time for people who are real and who want to really heal and who want to create real change in our communities and society.  I applaud you and I applaud Malando's serious response to this.  The others - I just walk away. 

Actually I have thought about this topic a few times and also came to the same conclusions as you all !! In fact here in OZ when u go to the movies we have Brian Brown (actor ) telling us that Pirating of movies will be tracked down and the people using these illegal  websites will be stopped and fined. Now if they can do that they can also track some of these sites and lock them down or make restrictions!! I also think the only way people change behaviors is to hurt them money wise, so mayb some of these sites need to reimburse people for ruining there lives...

I've been really ill the last couple of weeks so it is difficult to do research, but here is what I found:

1. The Federal Government is too big to get help from.

2. I live in Utah. There are laws here which prevent distributing harmful materials (pornography) to minors. Fines and prison are the penalties. I'm sure that is the same in all 50 states.

3. Internet Service Providers are a part of the supply chain responsible for distributing harmful materials to minors. They don't have to supply unlimited porn to an unknown audience, but are choosing to do so. Porn can be filtered out by the ISP so it is provided to adults on demand only.

4. I don't know why yet, but the Attorney General for Utah is not enforcing the law. I will be writing (a real paper letter) asking why. I suspect that there are legal reasons for non-enforcement which the AG will provide to me.

5. Given the the laws aren't being enforced, I am really thinking that massive numbers of people registering complaints to the FTC might get them to do something. If you don't know anything about the FTC do some research. That agency is an 800 lb gorilla when it comes to protecting consumers. I've seen them in action, real life. If you can get them moving they could be the driving force in changing how the ISP's provide adult material.

6. I don't believe in violating the first amendment rights. I do believe that I shouldn't have to be affected by vices that other people participate in (think secondhand cigarette smoke). Porn should be an "on demand" item. If someone wants it they should have to ask for it. I don't want it pushed on me or my nieces and nephews. 

7. As I've stated before this is not a "be all, cure all". Kids will always find a way to look at nudes. I am proposing we make it harder to find that just a click of a button.

You are right, it is a huge problem. Cable companies are also part of the problem too. About 10 yrs ago I worked at Comcast while I was going to school. We got paid a commission when we sold a customer PPV soft porn. It was gross and always made me uncomfortable. Back then people would have to call in. I cannot tell you the number of men who would call and just ask me to read them the titles!!! Yuck. I usually hung up on them and pretended like the call dropped, lol. Bus in a way maybe that was better because they did have to go to the effort of asking for it? I don't know. I do know that I am willing to do whatever is needed for my kids to grow up in a different environment than the current.

I hear you loud and clear AQ!  When I discovered and called to stop Cinemax and HBO the guy told me I could not do that.  So we had a discussion.  After a few weeks we had DTV removed.  I took the boxes and decimated them at my husband's suggestion.