Author Topic: NoFap Consciousness  (Read 13785 times)

Georgos

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Re: NoFap Consciousness
« Reply #200 on: April 15, 2017, 07:57:21 AM »
Over 105 days no PMO, 2 days no smoking in my flat. Felt compelled to try and cut my smoking down even more this morning, had to tell myself that was a bad idea, not because I don't want to cut down even more, but because I don't want to fail. I think I'll wait a good few weeks of no smoking in my flat before I try anything more drastic. Thank you.

Georgos

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Re: NoFap Consciousness
« Reply #201 on: April 23, 2017, 04:19:09 AM »
So my reboot continues and I've managed 10 days not smoking in my flat. The problem is I've started getting up at the crack of dawn and going outside to have a cigarette, this disrupts my mental state as I need sleep to remain sane. My libido is really low, which is a good thing because it stops me interacting with girls in a masochistic way, however my relationship has been going through a rocky patch as I went on a date with someone else and couldn't discern the appropriate hierarchy. I've been quite happy just keeping in touch with my girlfriend, so I guess I went on the date for the wrong reasons. Anyway, hopefully I'll get more sleep now. Thank you.

malando

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Re: NoFap Consciousness
« Reply #202 on: April 23, 2017, 05:35:35 AM »
So my reboot continues and I've managed 10 days not smoking in my flat. The problem is I've started getting up at the crack of dawn and going outside to have a cigarette, this disrupts my mental state as I need sleep to remain sane. My libido is really low, which is a good thing because it stops me interacting with girls in a masochistic way, however my relationship has been going through a rocky patch as I went on a date with someone else and couldn't discern the appropriate hierarchy. I've been quite happy just keeping in touch with my girlfriend, so I guess I went on the date for the wrong reasons. Anyway, hopefully I'll get more sleep now. Thank you.

The way I see it, if you go on a date with somebody else, you don't really have a girlfriend. You are not exclusive so it's not really a girlfriend/boyfriend situation. Presumably she is also free to go on dates with other men? If so, at most it seems you have a very casual relationship that is not particularly serious. Maybe this is better for you at the moment. Are you concealing this reality from her? Does she tell you she is going on dates too? I think you just have to be honest with each other about what you are doing. Don't call her your  girlfriend unless she understands everything and is agreeable to it. A real girlfriend is somebody you see often and you have some physical aspect to the relationship. Otherwise it's a friend. I don't think you want to date other people when you are serious about your girlfriend/boyfriend.

Georgos

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Re: NoFap Consciousness
« Reply #203 on: April 23, 2017, 07:10:46 AM »
Malando, I'm not religious, there are such things as polygamy if marriage is your thing, though it is illegal in Western countries, or polyamory which besides circumventing the law also allows for both parties to love other people. This is not a fetish of mine, I am interested in real love, sex is a means to an end, not that I doubt it can be pleasurable, I was trying to put a positive spin on the reality by calling her my girlfriend, she did say that I was free to go on other dates, and I also asked her occasionally if she had any dates with anyone else lined up, however, we pretty much exclusively talk to each other as far as I know. I went on the date partly out of intellectual fantasy and partly out of minor frustration, but everyone is still friends. Thank you.

malando

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Re: NoFap Consciousness
« Reply #204 on: April 23, 2017, 10:37:49 AM »
Malando, I'm not religious, there are such things as polygamy if marriage is your thing, though it is illegal in Western countries, or polyamory which besides circumventing the law also allows for both parties to love other people. This is not a fetish of mine, I am interested in real love, sex is a means to an end, not that I doubt it can be pleasurable, I was trying to put a positive spin on the reality by calling her my girlfriend, she did say that I was free to go on other dates, and I also asked her occasionally if she had any dates with anyone else lined up, however, we pretty much exclusively talk to each other as far as I know. I went on the date partly out of intellectual fantasy and partly out of minor frustration, but everyone is still friends. Thank you.

Well, I did ask how open you all being and you have answered that question, so thank you. I think you raised the ideas of polyamory/polygamy as an abstract argument because I don't believe you actually desire that at all. After all, you have pointed out numerous times that coping with a relationship with one person was hard enough - much less trying to manage more than one! As long as everything is out in the open, I have no issue with what you are doing. The reason I stress the importance of openness is because concealment and secrecy is at the heart of porn addiction too. As recovering addicts, being honest and open in all aspects of life is a crucial part of recovery, in my opinion. Any dabbling with concealment/secrecy plays into the addict mentality and increases the risk of keep those tendencies alive. Anyway, you can disregard what I said since it doesn't apply to you. Cheers.

Georgos

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Re: NoFap Consciousness
« Reply #205 on: April 25, 2017, 08:08:02 AM »
Got up at around 9am today which is generally enough sleep for me to stay sane. I go to bed at around 10pm, unless I wake up early in which case I tend to stay up all night. Debating with myself when to take the next step in smoking. Trying to control smoking sends me crazy, but stopping is not an option at this time either. I no longer smoke in my flat. I've felt a lot of pressure to take the next step, which will probably be not smoking for an hour after I get up. Need to pick a date for when I'm going to do this and stick to it. Thank you.

Georgos

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Re: NoFap Consciousness
« Reply #206 on: April 27, 2017, 12:33:22 PM »
Got up shortly before 11am today which is good for staying sane, although yesterday I got up just before 5am so was still a little unbalanced from then. It's been two weeks of not smoking in my flat, and over 117 days of reboot so far. As of tomorrow I'm going to start doing push ups in the morning before smoking again. Looking back at my diaries, the longest streak of push ups I've managed is about two weeks, and most of those were done after smoking not before. So I'll try and break my record. I'm going to aim to go an hour without smoking after I get up once I've completed a month of not smoking in my flat, so the push ups will act as an intermediary step. My new medication is really working, keeping me much calmer in the face of schizophrenic thoughts. I don't panic or get paranoid as much at all, but I do get spaced out. Been having weeks of religious experiences and dreams now. My atheism has been knocked on several occasions, and staying philosophical has been difficult. The problem is, if I simply surrender and accept God then I'm going to end up a dervish or pilgrim, homeless, relying on handouts for food, and wondering aimlessly about in continuous prayer. I'm scared of this. Work is also a fear since the reason for it is the same, to teach humility. I am happy the way things are, I want to focus on my plan to give up smoking, teach and study maths, and generally live an intellectual life. It gives me comfort. Stepping out of my comfort zone in such a big way is really not an option for me at the moment as I am too imbalanced in favour of my mind, and any drastic change would break me. Anyway, slowly, slowly, my reboot continues. Thank you.

Georgos

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Re: NoFap Consciousness
« Reply #207 on: April 28, 2017, 03:16:10 PM »
Years of learning to control my sexual urges has conditioned me to do the same with real women. I have been unable to give appropriate sexual responses, and have always resorted to selling my insecurities in the end. Today I got up at five again. Am doing my push ups first thing in the morning before smoking, but getting up at five means smoking more. I have to be a bit selfish. Thank you.

Georgos

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Re: NoFap Consciousness
« Reply #208 on: April 29, 2017, 01:56:16 PM »
So over 17 weeks no PMO, day 2 of doing push ups before smoking in the morning and over two weeks of not smoking in my flat. Reboot continues. Thank you.

Georgos

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Re: NoFap Consciousness
« Reply #209 on: May 04, 2017, 11:11:02 AM »
So a week of push ups before smoking in the morning, over 124 days of hard mode, and three weeks of not smoking in my flat. I'm a bit annoyed because I just wrote a long post about my issues with sex and managed to delete it by hitting refresh. I'll try and address it again. Basically the thrust of it was that years of PMO abuse has conditioned me to view sex as a kind of _process_, almost mechanical. When sexual desire hits me, I simply switched on my computer, clicked through some searches and PMO'd. At no point in this _process_ did I actually interact with another human being. This conditioning has left me unable to engage sexually with women, even flirting, and I don't know how to go about addressing this. I'm not physically unattractive and I'm reasonably good at being social, so that is not the problem, but I've been on so many dates and they all end the same way without me seeming to make any progress in losing my conditioned responses. This latest relationship, which in some ways was the best I've ever done since it lasted so many months, was completely non-sexual and more about companionship. However, there was very little intimacy, just the feeling of comfort that I had someone to text good night to before I went to bed. I don't know whether I should have brought up my history of PMO abuse, I wonder if however painful talking about it might have been for me, it would have allowed us to approach the problem together, as it stands, I seem to have sabotaged it, by thinking that sex _should_ be part of the relationship, rather than letting it develop naturally, though after so many months, it seemed likely that that would not happen. Anyway, thoughts are welcome. Thank you,

Georgos

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Re: NoFap Consciousness
« Reply #210 on: May 05, 2017, 11:50:45 AM »
So here is another observation. Real sex does not happen immediately you see someone you are sexually attracted to. However, with me, I have conditioned myself to instantly get sexual stimulation, via MO. Thus when I see someone I am sexually attracted to in real life, my initial reaction is necessarily to dampen down my conditioning and fight my urges. In other words, the sexual energy does not transmute into correct behaviour, but is suppressed and rebuked. What sexual energy should be transmuted into is bravery and good humour. However, I am not conditioned for that, instead if I let it flow through my body I am led to MO. This is not just a question of wrong thoughts, it is about the whole energy system of the body. At present I can only hope that by giving my mind and body a rest from sexual activity I can reset it and naturally develop the correct responses. Thank you.

Georgos

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Re: NoFap Consciousness
« Reply #211 on: May 06, 2017, 02:19:12 PM »
I think I mentioned before that to some extent I fit the definition of "love shy" that was proposed by a slightly wacky psychologist, Dr. Brian Gilmartin. Basically he identified a sub-group of males who had sexual behaviour patterns that were essentially corresponding to stereotypical female ones whilst still being attracted to women. As an example, I know that one of the things I am looking for is someone to look after me. rather than someone to look after. Another example is that I want the woman to pursue me, rather than me pursue her. Such men typically are virgins into their late thirties or more. A girl friend of mine said that these attitudes were actually very masculine, and writing it now, I wonder if that is not the case, they are traditional masculine desires. Perhaps they are desires from a by gone era and the modern world has changed. Something is wrong. Observing myself today, if I smile with genuineness at a girl in the street then she always smiles back, but if I smile with the idea of testing whether or not she will smile back then she never does. So is this a matter of faith and doubt. I can get smiles, taking the next step is the hard part, but is that simply because I am not genuine in doing so. Years of PMO has made me look for a woman who will entertain me with sexual behaviour. I doubt such women exist in real life, and I am not genuine in looking for any other kind of relationship. Indeed the only other kind of relationship I am interested in is a mothering relationship and I already have one of those. As I said, something is wrong. Thank you.

Georgos

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Re: NoFap Consciousness
« Reply #212 on: May 07, 2017, 11:25:51 AM »
Over 127 days hard mode, 24 days not smoking in my flat, 10 days push ups before smoking in the morning, and now two days of not smoking until I get to the bottom of my road in the morning. My plan was/is to go an hour without smoking in the morning every day as of the 11th, but I found myself taking the baby step of not smoking until I got to the bottom of my road each morning yesterday, and to be honest, even that was proving tough. Actually, it's quite easy, but if I think about the cigarette I'm going to have when I get there, then it feels like a huge effort. I know all this sounds pathetic, but I really fear the withdrawals of cigarettes, and I really fear not being a smoker. Reading back over what I wrote yesterday, I'm not sure it's really me. Of course I want a relationship that is mutual. It's just sex for me has been pretty much exclusively PMO. Also, what with my schizophrenia, finding someone I can have a mutual understanding with is hard. I need a woman who can approach me just right. I need to learn how to approach women in a genuine way. I'm not in a rush. Thank you.

Georgos

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Re: NoFap Consciousness
« Reply #213 on: May 09, 2017, 01:19:09 AM »
So over 129 days of hard mode and still going, however my 11 day streak of doing push ups before I smoke in the morning came to an end today. I woke up at five and though I didn't smoke in the flat I did go straight outside and smoke. Needless to say I didn't make it to the bottom of my road either. I don't feel bad, am more annoyed at waking up so early. However tomorrow I need to get back to not smoking until I get to the bottom of the road and after I've done my push ups. Everything is fine so long as I sleep well. Thank you.

Georgos

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Re: NoFap Consciousness
« Reply #214 on: May 12, 2017, 04:23:11 AM »
Managed two days of not smoking until I got to the bottom of my road, but today I woke up at six and smoked first thing, although I did manage to do push ups first. Getting to not smoking for an hour after I wake up every day is going to be tough, sustaining it even tougher. I shall do it however. Thank you.

Georgos

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Re: NoFap Consciousness
« Reply #215 on: May 14, 2017, 10:42:15 AM »
Got up at six again yesterday, so that was no good :( However this morning I managed to get even further before smoking in the morning. I need to see if I can do this for at least a week uninterrupted, although that depends largely on my sleep. Getting used to not smoking in the morning is the priority for me after finishing with PMO for good. Ideally I want to be able to not smoke until after 12pm every day, something I've only ever managed once. At the moment I'm building up to an hour, then two hours, then three hours, and then I should be there. Thank you.

Georgos

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Re: NoFap Consciousness
« Reply #216 on: May 15, 2017, 02:13:15 PM »
Over 135 days of hard mode and two days of not smoking in the morning until I get to the bus stop (about a twenty minute walk from my flat). I need to see if I can keep up the abstaining from smoking in the morning for at least two weeks before I increase it again. I know I can do more, but it is consistency that I am looking for, I don't want to just do several hours for one day only and cave the next day as I have in the past, but rather make it part of my routine. Slowly, slowly I shall give up smoking. With regards to women, I am told by the doctors that I have high levels of prolactin caused by the anti-psychotic medication that I am on, and this often causes a lowered libido. However, staying sane is definitely my priority, as even if I had a high libido, if I am crazy there is no chance of bonding with a girl. Indeed I went to a bar a couple of evenings ago and started to sense psychotic things in my head, though it wasn't a relapse as such, just questionable sensations. Twice I thought of going up to two separate pairs of girls and trying to chat them up, and both times, I chickened out. My head filled with doubts, not just about rejection, but whether I could be funny, energetic, engaging, etc. I guess I shouldn't be so hard on myself, going to a bar on your own and chatting up women is hard for any guy. The truth is, I had other doubts as well. Was I just interested because they looked sexy or attractive? What if I didn't like their personality. Did I even want sex? Or should I even be contemplating sex at the first encounter? All these things contribute to my inability to meet girls on a sexual level. The biggest thing is lack of belief. Anyway, I'm in no rush. These things will improve over time. Thank you.

Georgos

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Re: NoFap Consciousness
« Reply #217 on: May 17, 2017, 02:10:05 PM »
Only managed to get to the bottom of my road without smoking this morning, didn't manage to get to the bus stop. Have to do better tomorrow. Thank you.

Georgos

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Re: NoFap Consciousness
« Reply #218 on: May 19, 2017, 11:21:17 AM »
Two days of getting to the bus stop without smoking so far. But... and its a terrible but... today after over 140 days of hard mode, I PMOd. I don't want to make a big thing about it. Going out for a walk afterwards I felt the old anxiety return. It's a little slip in what already has been a great year. Hopefully it will be my only slip. Don't know what else to say really. PMOing once every 140 days is far from being an addict, neurotic maybe, but not an addict. Of course, the addictive behaviour could return, but only if I let it. There are several things that I need to address in tandem with my reboot. They are all part of the journey. Thank you.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2017, 12:21:45 PM by Georgos »

malando

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Re: NoFap Consciousness
« Reply #219 on: May 19, 2017, 01:16:56 PM »
Two days of getting to the bus stop without smoking so far. But... and its a terrible but... today after over 140 days of hard mode, I PMOd. I don't want to make a big thing about it. Going out for a walk afterwards I felt the old anxiety return. It's a little slip in what already has been a great year. Hopefully it will be my only slip. Don't know what else to say really. PMOing once every 140 days is far from being an addict, neurotic maybe, but not an addict. Of course, the addictive behaviour could return, but only if I let it. There are several things that I need to address in tandem with my reboot. They are all part of the journey. Thank you.

I hate to burst your bubble, Georgos, but you are still an addict. I've been clean for 311 days and I'm still an addict. Just because I'm  better at resisting porn, doesn't mean that I'm cured. The fact that you relapsed shows that this thing can get you when you least expect it. That's what addiction is like. Just like an alcoholic is ok as long as he stays away from alcohol, but he doesn't say, "I'm no longer an addict because I quit drinking". He's no longer a drinker because he's an alcoholic.

Same for us: we decide not to PMO because we are addicts, we don't cease to be addicts just because we stop PMO. We both know that if explicit images were put in front of us, it would stir up our addiction and we'd be in danger of relapse.

As much as addicts like to kid themselves that they can be cured, it's not true - there will always be vulnerability around the thing of addiction. Management and discipline around the object of addiction will always be important. A smart man doesn't get complacent. A smart man remembers his vulnerabilities.

Georgos

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Re: NoFap Consciousness
« Reply #220 on: May 19, 2017, 02:55:25 PM »
Hi Malando, I'm really happy you're still reading my posts :) You are right about the addiction. However, some context, a typical porn addict spends a large number of hours every day engaged in the activity of PMO, I honestly haven't done that for years, indeed for several years now its been brief sessions between once a week and once a month. I honestly don't think the best way to describe this scenario is addiction, I believe it is better to think of it as wrong wiring with regards to how I get my sexual satisfaction. In other words, the natural impulses for sexual stimulation are being played out through the wrong direction. If I was having sex as frequently as I was PMOing, you'd say I had a healthy sex life, or if anything, too little sex. There is a very important reasons that I am making this distinction between addiction and wrong wiring, in that it affects how I reboot with regards to having a healthy sex life. The act of always trying to control my sexual responses carries over to when I interact with women. This is why I use the word, neurosis. It is a catch 22, in order to rewire, I have to stop PMO, but in stopping PMO I am wiring my brain to resist and control sexual impulses, which inhibits me with women. I am not saying this is the case for everyone. However, I believe some guys who have had no problem engaging in real sexual relationships in the past whilst PMOing are now finding that with the learning to control PMO comes an inhibition with regards to real sex. Talking about it as an addiction is useful and has its place, breathing is not an addiction, but cigarette smoking is because it is the wrong kind of breathing, similarly healthy sexual activity is not an addiction but PMO as the only or main source of sexual satisfaction is. However, in my case, I believe I have got to the stage where the chemical addiction is not the main problem, its the psychology. This does not mean I will be complacent, putting as much distance between PMO and my daily routine is the fundamental first step towards having a healthy sex life. However, I need to really engage with the rewiring process more proactively as well, perhaps through therapy. I have read on other journals some of the guys saying that after 90 days hard mode, one should really start to relax and engage in real sexual activity. This simply has not been an option for me because for almost all my life I have found it impossible to have real sexual interaction. I am not using this as an excuse, I actually prefer "monk mode" to PMO. I feel much more serene and settled in my daily life, but I can't help but feel that until I'm experiencing real healthy sex on a regular basis, I haven't actually recovered. Anyway, as always, your thoughts are most welcome. Thank you.

Georgos

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Re: NoFap Consciousness
« Reply #221 on: May 20, 2017, 05:23:12 AM »
Ok, so got a little further than yesterday without smoking in the morning, actually got on the bus :) Been thinking more about yesterday. What happened. First off I wanted to know if there was anything new on the P sites. Of course there wasn't. Same shit really. Not that that stopped me PMOing. However I think the real problem started when I went to the bar and thought about chatting up some women. My failure from that was where it started. I read the following review of the book "The Love-Shy Survival Guide" by Talmer Shockley which I'm thinking of getting:

"Speak to any true love shy.

They are suffering from a delusional/fantasy disorder.
As Gilmartin wrote, they would rather be with a pretty girl than have a good sex life. His book is 700 pages long, however I think that line is one of the most important things to understand.

Also, many love shy men would not be better or cured if they actually got with the perfect girl, as Gilmartin wrote, because they enjoy the fantasies and daydreams so much more. Some prefer being the way they are, alone and dreaming.

Love shyness is a form of OCD, fantasy/delusional disorder, and normal shyness combined. That's it.

I urge people to read Gilmartin's book to really understand it better."

Now from what I know, many of those who are identified as "love-shy" are quite extreme, and I wouldn't necessarily say I am in the same category, however these things are a continuum, and I definitely identify with what the reviewer wrote. In my case it is slightly more complicated, whilst on the one hand, my PMO abuse has led me to only want to have sex with the perfect girl, my morals tell me that all girls have their own beauty in one way or another. As far as enjoying fantasy and daydreams more than the reality of sexual relationships, I can relate to that as well. The OCD is the perpetual tension between fantasy/delusion and wanting to engage in real sex. I haven't read either Shockley's book or Gilmartin's. Apparently Gilmartin's advice on how to transcend this condition involves using prostitutes combined with therapy, something which I reject on moral grounds. However I can see why he would say that, in that rewiring requires actual sexual experience. At any rate, with regards to my PMO addiction, I think I've identified a trigger. Thank you.

Georgos

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Re: NoFap Consciousness
« Reply #222 on: May 20, 2017, 12:07:38 PM »
Despite still feeling anxiety around other people after yesterday's relapse, I had urges today. I don't deny there is a chemical component, but the point is I manage to ignore it. The psychological problems have remained though. Problems to do with how I relate to success and failure in my life. Problems to do with how I relate myself to others and others to myself. Problems to do with how I relate to fantasy and delusion. Until I resolve these problems, or perhaps a better way of stating it, reframe them, I will always be single and stuck in this rut that I find myself in. Leaving PMO in the past is one half of the solution, reframing these other psychological problems is the other. Thank you.

malando

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Re: NoFap Consciousness
« Reply #223 on: May 20, 2017, 01:27:21 PM »
I think the author of that book is potentially putting excessive emphasis on what seems to be his central theme for his book. The idea that there is a "love shy" archetype that follows this delusional/fantasy profile ignores the most blindingly simple alternative: that some love-shy people are so hopelessly lacking self-worth and self-confidence that they are convinced they can't have anybody, let alone a perfect girl. In fact, from my observations in life talking with people very low on confidence with dating, it is very rare that they are fixated on perfection. They will often say they just wish they had somebody, anybody who would love them, want them or spend time with them. I won't deny that such a thing as this book describes is a real thing some people have, but the make a generalisation like "Speak to any true love shy...." - it smacks of a demigod aspect on behalf of the author that he must unite the issues of the "love shy" under his own paradigm. But hey, you can't sell books and distinguish yourself as a writer/analyst if you admit that crippling self-confidence problems are at the heart of most "love shy" people's problems. Oh no - you have to focus on the exotic minority which can generate a book that turns heads. It fills me with pause about this author.

Georgos

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Re: NoFap Consciousness
« Reply #224 on: May 21, 2017, 05:47:35 AM »
Hi Malando, the book is explicitly about a minority the psychologist has identified and labelled "love-shy". It is not meant for those who are just shy, but those who exhibit the symptoms detailed. Whether I fit into this category I don't know, as I said, some of the examples are quite extreme. However I do identify with the idea that it is not shyness per se that stops me from having relationships but fantasy/delusional disorder and OCD. First off, I definitely suffer from fantasy/delusional disorder in my general life, being diagnosed with schizophrenia. This may not be what the author meant or was referring to, but it is a strong component of what goes wrong when I try to flirt, or think about chatting up a woman. I read things into the environment, over heard conversations in the room, or if I manage to actually get into a conversation with a woman, I read hidden meanings into her words. All of these hidden associations correspond to certain fantasies or delusions I have in my head. PMO definitely contributed greatly to this state of affairs, not just in shaping the delusions and fantasies, but in making me look for hidden meanings, having lived a double secret life for so long filled with paranoia about my addiction being found out. With regards to looking for the perfect girl, I too would say I just want someone to love me, but when it comes to reality, the interactions I seem to want do not seem to exist. This is one component of the OCD, with PMO you are constantly looking for the perfect image, moving quickly on or through images until you O. I think the inability to do this in real interactions, where you have to spend time, working with one individual, building a relationship, and also, are not in control of the direction the relationship will take, is something that is alien to my PMO abuse induced wiring, at least as far as sexual interactions go. I say all this, because, I am not shy, except when it comes to sexual interactions, and in those cases it is much more of a phobia than endearing shyness. I probably need to step out of my comfort zone more, however I think that doing that and the self-sabotaging failures that generally result from my negative expectations, is a trigger for returning to PMO. I'm definitely getting better, and a large part of that is down to putting distance between my self and PMO. There's still enough time for me to go six months this year, which has been a long standing aim of mine for many years now. Hopefully after that I will be finished with this disease for good. Thank you.